The Shipping News Forum

[maripaul]

May be the wrong forum for this question . . . but, with all of the photos we see of loaded container vessels, is it appropriate to assume that close to half of the containers are empty and being returned to sending port??  Here in Portland, Oregon, the area around the main container terminal is bulging with empty containers, and much of the local word is that the Chinese are now building containers cheap enough to justify a one-way cost.

[waterboys]

Hi,

I am not really an expert on this but I "drive" all those boxes across the Pacific:

is it appropriate to assume that close to half of the containers are empty and being returned to sending port??

... eastbound it's all full boxes. NO empty boxes are shipped from Asia to the US - NEVER.
Due to the imbalance of trade volumes it is very much different on the way back: Westbound I

[Andrew McAlpine]

Hi,
It is exactly the same with the Europe to Far-East trade, the boxes come in full and their is not enouigh cargo to load them to the far east resulting in a huge imbalance of empty boxes in Europe.
It is a big problem for shipping lines and they cant do enough to return their boxes to the far-east.
I work at a container terminal in the uk and shipping lines often charter vessels just to take empties back to china etc.
It is sad to say that the UK's main export is fresh air in boxes!

I have not heard about the one way containers, they have tried various things in the past all of which are unworkable ie collapsable containers etc.

Rgds
Andrew

[Jean Hemond]

I posted an inquiry about folding sea-thight containers with sealed joints!

I was, before retiring, involved about 4 years ago about a R&D project on such a container!

I  learned then that shortly before a financial scam occured for such a project (in New-Zealand if I remember correctly)!
That put and end to the governement support for R&D tax credits!
 
 It was also reported that a large number of the defective containers were disposed for other uses (storage etc) rather than repaired! .

And that  ships were, anyway, available to carry the good ones back even empty at less cost than financing complex folding and stowage systems!

But I like to hear about eventual ongoing R&D for such a product!
Jean!

[Brent]

Mr Hadock I am not sure if your memory of the "scam in New Zealand" is correct as there hasn't been anything in the shipping press for years on such a topic. We don't manufatcure containers here although that's not say there may be some clever dick designers. Mind you the government is being lured into funding "degree" courses in "deejaying" and "studying hip-hop overseas" so there certainly seems to be some level of scamming here.

Certainly is a problem now with repositioning empties back to Asia, but years ago there was reasonable two-way trade in containers so the empty problem was minor. So since the Chinese and neighbors have turned "exporting of junk" into an artform container imbalances have surged as local industries close down and import cheap Asian substitute instead.

I believe the biggest problem of empty containers are the stocks inland in the USA and the like. The big stumbling block is to get the empties back to a seaport and railroads and truckies don't seem interested in shipping empties. So the stockpiles in the Chicago's, Pittsburg's and Little Rock's I understand are far greater than the Los Angeles and Seattle's. I think it was with this problem in mind that the Chinese decided to try and transfer the technology from the disposal camera industry to the container.

Cheers

Brent

[Jean Hemond]

Thanks Brent!

Scams are all over the business world and not peculiar to any country !


Empties are surely more of a situation on roads and railways than on ships!

I still think folding containers and  their mechanisms are not a impossible since they already exist in various not weather tight forms.

  But  their economical weather sealing remains to be developed!

If we think about it; somebody, somewhere is already working hard toward a rewarding solution to this problem!


Jean

[amsmtg]

Quite an interesting trade that has recently begun is the use of empty containers to ship scrap metal back to Asia. The scrap metal trade is quite significant as Chines/Korean/Japanese Steel mills have very advanced "Electric Arc" furnaces which can recycle scrap at much cheaper prices than in Europe. Normally scrap is transported as break-bulk, but the empty containers have provided a reasonably affordable method of shipping pre-stowed scrap steel which is easily loaded and discharged.

Would be interested to hear from those at docks/sea if they have had much experience of this growing trade?

[cazenove]

There is a huge quantity of scrap metal being imported from Europe and the USA into India.With the economy booming,there are many steel mills which process such scrap into low grade steel which is used in various industries.Have heard of electric arc furnaces.From a shipping line point of view,scrap metal is typically low paying cargo which tends to damage the containers and thus lines do not like accepting scrap metal shipments.The biggest concern is not the cost of repairing the container but the fact that the container is out of action for the time it spends in the repair yard and thus cant be turned around asap.

[swardish]

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[JMB]

There was a programme on the radio here about a year or so ago, can't remember the main subject but I am sure they said that there was such a huge number of containers coming from China that that many/most were scrapped.  I think someone was using them somewhere to build something because he could get them for virtually no cost but can't remember what it was he used them for now.

MB

[Tom Walker]

A company in Heathfield, Devon brought a cargo of empty containers into Teignmouth a few years ago on the DALHEIM.  It was supposed to be the first of several consignments for conversion into mobile offices.  There have been no further cargoes so presumably the scheme was not as successful as planned.  It was interesting to see the containers being discharged alongside the Jubilee Wharf using gear specially brought in for the job.

[hilton]

Saw my first ever WAN HAI  container ship at Vlissingen on Tuesday 4 March a.m. sailing into Antwerp and again outbound on Wednesday 5 March at lunchtime could not identify which one.  Also one of the Saga general cargo ships outbound on Friday 7 March at 15:15?   Can anyone help?.

[Dai Bin]

very interesting  :-)

mark