Author Topic: Deletions  (Read 16099 times)

Offline Kelvin Davies

  • Top Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,649
    • View Profile
    • http://kelvindavies.co.uk/
Deletions
« on: June 29, 2010, 09:56:23 PM »
I follow the deletions thread regularly and I have noticed a degree of unfairness or perhaps ruthlessness creeping in lately.
This gorgeous photo is doomed:
http://www.shipspotting.com/modules/myalbum/photo-661419-GUNUNG+DEMPO
On the grounds the view is mainly of the bow.
But what about this one:
http://www.shipspotting.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=242912
It too is mainly a view of the bow. Yet it was posted by the same admin who proposes to delete Jorn's photo.
This one:
http://www.shipspotting.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=816838
is 99% stern but has not been proposed for deletion.
There are many other examples; in today's crop are some which do not meet the rules (sloping horizons, too far away etc), fair enough.
But what of those that are obstructed by street furniture, dock-side impedimenta etc?
Here's an example of a view being obstructed by a ship in the background!
http://www.shipspotting.com/modules/myalbum/photo-1138107-FAIRCHEM+CHARGER
Then this one is OK, apparently:
http://www.shipspotting.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=1008291
And so it goes; there are lots of examples of photos being deleted for "offences" that seem to be committed by the same admins that propose to delete them.
I have no intention of picking on any particular admin; the examples I chose were just the easiest to choose.
All I am asking for is a bit of fair play.
Or, to quote the bible; "Physician heal thyself".
I am sure this will be taken in the right spirit, I don't want to begin one of those old rounds of spiteful shouting as have been seen in the past.
Regards
Kelvin

Offline polsteam

  • Top Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 815
    • View Profile
    • http://ships.greenet.pl/photo
Re: Deletions
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2010, 10:11:21 PM »
"This gorgeous photo is doomed:
http://www.shipspotting.com/modules/m ... photo-661419-GUNUNG+DEMPO
On the grounds the view is mainly of the bow."


what a stupid reason / explanation for deleting such a nice photo !

it seems sometimes "power" spoils people and takes good reasoning away...
despite using "polsteam" for my nick I have NO personal (professional) or business connections with the company of the same name

Offline peter j. fitzpatrick

  • Home away from home
  • ****
  • Posts: 358
    • View Profile
Re: Deletions
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2010, 10:18:49 PM »
GENTLEMEN
YOUR COMPLAINTS WILL FALL ON DEAF EARS AS AN AGENDA HAS BEEN SET AND THE ADMIN WILL NOT LISTEN TO YOU
SO WHY BOTHER, JUST KEEP POSTING YOUR PHOTOS AND IF THEY DONT LIKE THE LOOK OF THE PHOTO THEN IT GETS DELETED
THATS IT   :-?     NOTHING YOU CAN DO
REGARDS
PETER

Offline Cornelia Klier

  • Top Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,882
    • View Profile
Re: Deletions
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2010, 10:24:25 PM »
Hey, "Polsteam" ! Do you really have to be SO rude and start here, to assuming things which you for sure can't prove ??? I think this is least to be said UNFAIR to all admins who are doing their job in the freetime !!!!

Although I am not involved in this case, I think before you are getting that low, and writing nasty things, you should contact one of the senior admins, I'd say Clyde - and talk the issue.
The usual procedure is, that one admin is looking through the categories, then shifting the photo to the "for deletion" category, where a second admin is looking at the photos !! What I know is, that most admins are deciding in favour of the member, not against members and playing "god" on the forum. No, that not at all !!!

In that case I'd say, that photo has a good right to stay, it's a bow-shot and not insulting any of the rules given in FAQ.

 I'll forward this to Clyde who is a very experienced and objective administrator.

Meanwhile, I ask you to keep the discussion objective as well and refrain from ranting in a sensless and emotional way !!

Here the FAQ:

SITE STANDARDS THAT APPLY TO ALL PHOTOS

1. Resolution (image size) must be between 1024 x 768 pixels and 4000 x 4000 pixels.

2. File size maximum is 4000 KB

3. Photos must be sharp and correctly exposed.

4. No silhouettes will be accepted

5. Full ships only. Foreground obstructions must not restrict the view of the ship. For side views, bows or sterns must not be cropped off. Bow and stern shots may be acceptable if they show the vessel from the waterline to the top of the superstructure.

6. The ship must be the main subject. Distant views and shots where the ship is a small part of the image may be considered for deletion. Members should understand the limitations of their camera.

7. If posting multiple photos, the angle must change by a minimum of 30 degrees between photos.

8. The horizon must be level. If not, use free Picasa (see FAQ) or other photo manipulation software.

9. The date and location for the photo must be included in the description.

10. When uploading, members must comply with copyright law. Post only photographs for which you have copyright ownership. Other people's slides or negatives can only be used if their name and permission is stated in the description. No scans of ship photographs from publications are allowed.

SEE ALSO THE FAQs under the heading SITE STANDARDS FOR CATEGORIES with additional or varied standards applicable for a vessel category.

Offline peter j. fitzpatrick

  • Home away from home
  • ****
  • Posts: 358
    • View Profile
Re: Deletions
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2010, 10:51:24 PM »
COKL
POINT 11 ; SITE PHOTO STANDARDS APPLY TO ALL PHOTOS EXCEPT ADMIN
PERHAPS YOU CAN ADD THAT IN
MY REGARDS
PETER J.FITZPATRICK

Clyde Dickens

  • Guest
Re: Deletions
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2010, 11:03:48 PM »
Less than  2% of current photos uploaded are deleted.  In other words more than 98% of members take the trouble to comply with the site standards that apply to us all.  Many of the recent photos transferred to the Consider for deletion category were old photos noted during reviews.  See http://www.shipspotting.com/modules/xoopsfaq/index.php?cat_id=57

Consider means what it says.  Sometimes a photo is returned to category because I think it does not warrant deletion.  That does not happen often, because the Admins do not make transfers without good reason.  They spend more time helping members than making transfers to Consider for deletion.  For the deletion process see  http://www.shipspotting.com/modules/xoopsfaq/index.php?cat_id=24

Members are notified of the deletion of any photo uploaded by them.  All deletion notification messages include a thumbnail of the photo being deleted, the comment made by the Admin, and a link to the relevant site standard.  Very few replies are received.  Nearly all of those express thanks for being informed, and agreement with the process.  Any complaints are answered and if appropriate passed on to the Webmaster for a third opinion.

Clyde

Bob Scott

  • Guest
Re: Deletions
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2010, 01:29:59 AM »
Moons ago, I was a photo admin on this site, Now I am not.
I have to comment that there are nowadays a few - I repeat, just a few -  submissions for deletion by admins that just should not be so!
There are, on the other hand, an awful lot of photos posted that are complete and utter rubbish!
Although they do occasionally get carried-away on the deletion thing, on balance the admins do carry out a very necessary task.
Go easy on them and learn from it, rather than scream in protest, when they take an objective view on your totally-subjectively-viewed photo!

Offline Kelvin Davies

  • Top Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,649
    • View Profile
    • http://kelvindavies.co.uk/
Re: Deletions
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2010, 05:07:46 AM »
Clyde,
As I feared, my initial post has been taken the wrong way.
You refer to the site standards, deletion process etc.
The whole point of my post was to avoid an argument over standards and the deletion process. I was trying to point out that admins are deleting photos that do not meet the standards, while their own photos may not meet those same standards.
I suspect it is this which causes so much bitterness over deletions.
A level playing field is the term I had in mind.
Kelvin

Clyde Dickens

  • Guest
Re: Deletions
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2010, 07:09:29 AM »
Kelvin

If you feared it would be taken the wrong way, why did you make the post?  A member of your experience should have been able to predict who would say what after you raised the subject.  You could have made the comment to me or the Webmaster by email or PM.  If you were not happy about the response then you could have used this Forum

You say there is much bitterness over deletions.  That is not the feedback I get from the deletion messages I send.  

I am pleased that you regularly review the Consider for deletion category.  If more members did that they would see evidence of what does not comply with the site standards that apply to us all.  That would reduce Admin workload.  

For current uploads, and during catch up reviews, photos uploaded by Admins are treated the same as photos uploaded by anyone else.  That is a matter of pride as well as credibility

Clyde

Offline Fergal Clohessy

  • Home away from home
  • ****
  • Posts: 336
    • View Profile
Re: Deletions
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2010, 08:28:30 AM »
honestly, its no wonder I stopped using this rubbish site.. its like being back at school.

F L I C K R

Offline ChasB46

  • Top Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 962
    • View Profile
Re: Deletions
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2010, 09:06:42 AM »
I guess I'll be accused of stirring things again. Now, someone is going to say if you know you are stirring things do not bother going any further. Then we all get in a huff and get personal. I have always tried to be constructive with comments rather than destructive. Lets all take a step back and expand on Kevin's original thought re deletions. I am all in favour of deletions ..there are not enough, a cull is required !! Using Kevins example of the bow shot (Gunung Dempo IMO 9401324) ... this was not a single shot of the ship ( and a cracking photo) ..a full set of views were uploaded and with another contributor there are now 8 angles. In my opinion 8 shots max of any ship are enough. Why can't we limit to eg 8 best shots in total, covering each angle.  30+ broadsides of the same ship are not really promoting the site quality. We can self police rather than Admins having the workload. If your photo is not as good as those before then keep it to yourself. If you think its better then upload it ... perhaps a "flag" could re raised within admins (simple to count this is number 9 of IMO /Name) that there is a possible better entry and if so remove the worse one/s.  Its not an easy task but is a site of 700,000 images going on 1million , many of very dubious quality, better than one of 100,000 photos worth looking at? Perhaps its now too late, should have been Rule 1 at start. However, a plea, if your photos are no better than the umpteen of a vessel keep it to yourself. And if you have not read this forum you are still going to upload dross.

Offline Cornelia Klier

  • Top Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,882
    • View Profile
Re: Deletions
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2010, 10:47:08 AM »
There is proof of one thing: There are no different standards for us photo admins than for the other members.

I tell you here, I have as well put photos of an admin in the "for deletion" category - as well some of my photos were put by an admin in the trashcan !!

Both, with a good right. The ones were photos of ships in a distance, and I had accidentally uploaded doubles.

Many of us admins are not as long admins as we are a member of this site, so it can not be excluded, that the one or other old shot does not meet the standards. We are no different than any other member here, just trying to keep the quality of this site here up, according to FAQ. and standards.

Those, who had the rants about, above I would like to ask the question:
What is the real problem ??

What does stop you, to contact an admin personally (BY IM) when you see a photo, that you think, does not meet the standards ??

I think this would be the best way to do !!! If we as admins aren't sure, we will as well always ask another admin for advice and for hell's sake, we are not always SO sure that we do decide and there it goes !!

I must admit, when I am not sure, where upload, what and so, and if at all, I did ask an admin for advice, why not ? This, before I joined the team myself.

Well, let's stick together and communicate, after all we have all got same hobby and all what we want is, showing beautiful shipping pictures...

Keep on Spotting !  :lol:

Cornelia

Offline Tomislav Raymondi

  • Top Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,175
    • View Profile
Re: Deletions
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2010, 04:42:48 PM »
I crossed out all my photos posted here from the year 2008 ahead.

I did not share the criteria for deletions, taken by a few menbers.

Kind Regards

Tomi.

Offline Fred Vloo

  • Top Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,040
    • View Profile
Re: Deletions
« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2010, 08:39:42 PM »
Hi Admin. team kudos for the good work you are doing. I fully support you in this matter. Lets go for quality.
Don't forget to have fun
Fred

Offline Kelvin Davies

  • Top Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,649
    • View Profile
    • http://kelvindavies.co.uk/
Re: Deletions
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2010, 10:15:29 PM »
Unfortunately, at lest 3 Admins missed my point entirely.
More than one has posed the question along the same lines as Ken's "If you didn't want to start another round as you say then why start this."
Start what? I stated quite clearly I was not having a go at the deletions criteria, whether I agree with them or not. I was pointing out that there were examples of Admins deleting photos while some of their own fail the same criteria.
Now I have stated it twice, it should be fairly clear.
I would like to say that one Admin saw immediately what I was talking about and sent me a PM, putting his hand up and he has reviewed and dealt with his own contributions where necessary.
An honest and fair Admin who did not react with the "don't pick on us" line but who acted honourably. Well done that Admin! (And a special mention to Derek too!)
As for the question "Why not PM the Admin?", there are 2 responses to that:
1. Multiple Admins involved and I can't figure out who some of them are with just 2 initials and no name
2. I sent a PM to Clyde somewhere around the beginning of the year in response to a request for someone willing to add some advice on the use of Adobe Photoshop (http://www.shipspotting.com/modules/xoopsfaq/index.php?cat_id=45#q194).
If and when I receive a reply I will let you know.
So, to summarise; I don't want to re-start the whole debate over what to delete etc.
I did want to start a debate over why the policy was not being applied fairly.
To be honest, I half expected at least some of the Admins to go on the defensive and respond with "Why are you picking on us, we do a thankless task" etc., rather than acknowledge that there may be an issue with the way the policies are applied.
I wasn't disappointed!
Regards to all
Kelvin

 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk