Photographs on this site

[simonwp]

I have just started seriously posting photographs on this site, having just completed scanning over 30000 taken over the past 40 years. I have tried to restrict myself to one per ship, and have not posted any which obviously do not meet site standards, but I have to admit that I've taken a chance with one or two which I thought were borderline acceptable. Inevitably some older ones were taken with poor equipment and not much skill. What has surprised me is that none of these have been deleted, but the few deletions I've had have been from shots which I considered very much acceptable. There is also great inconsistency across the categories. I stress that I'm not being critical of the photo admins, they do a difficult job, and I have accepted any deletions without argument.

However it has made me ask what is the philosophy of the site, i.e. what is more important, the ship or the photograph? Is it better to have, say, hundreds of excellent shots of QM2, or a few of slightly dubious quality of a ship with little or no coverage? That is where the main inconsistency lies I feel. some admins appear to be more tolerant of a slightly inferior shot if it is of a vessel with little or no coverage, whereas others apply the standards ruthlessly regardless of the ship.

That brings me to another question. Why do people post, using QM2 as an example, yet more shots of a ship already well covered. What does this add to the site? Server space is limited, and doing this just clutters the site, in my opinion. Once you get towards fifty or so shots of the same ship, that's probably enough, unless the shot is significantly different. Maybe photo admins need to consider this issue as well. I know people are proud of their shots, or want to be considered a top poster, but there has to be limits.

It seems to me that other members are also of this opinion. I've noticed that my photographs of vessels already well covered receive relatively few views, even if they are good shots, whereas older or less well covered vessel get far more views and complementary comments, even if they are of lesser quality.

It would be interesting to hear other members views. However I do not want this topic to generate critisim of the Webmaster and Photo Admins, they do a thankless job under difficult circumstances. I really want a more general discussion.

[Jens Boldt]

At Fleetmon.com uploads for any one vessel are limited to 7 photos in total per user. When you upload the 7th one you get a warning that you should not upload more of this ship. Don't know what happens when you exceed the 7-photo-limit, photos will probably be deleted by administration.

Undoubtedly I have posted more than seven photos of several ships here at Shipspotting, but I could live with the introduction of such a limit.

As for the inconsistencies of deletions and the site's philosophy (if there is any...) I completely agree with you. But I won't say no more, that'd be bad for my blood pressure!

Cheers,
Jens

[csaba]

I can also live with the 7 photo limit per ship per photographer. However, I think the OP's point is too many pix of the same ship. So if 100 people take 7 pix of the same ship you end up with 700 photos. And yes, just how many photos of the same ship do we need, some may ask.
Any thoughts?

[Clydee]

Thanks Simon for a well presented and logical analysis.  

But please remember that the site is not one album, it is a collection of individual member's albums.  No member should be required to check other member's uploads before choosing his/her own.  As an international site, views of one vessel from a widespread number of locations add to the perception of the ship.

I could live with a limited member total of shots per vessel.  I would prefer 10 or 12.  That allows for showing changes of livery, changes of name, an historical record of member captures, and special events.  By self deleting, the collection for the vessel could be made to cover a variety of angles/locations.

Best regards
Clyde  

[simonwp]

Interestingly, Clyde, I DO check the site before posting. If I see that there are many shots of a particular vessel I have photographs of, I restrict myself to one shot, and, in many cases do not post at all if my shot is similar to those already on the site. It's Ok if you can add something different, e.g. new colours, different aspect etc., but I don't see the point of adding shots virtually identical to those already on the site.

There are nearly 1200 photographs of QM2 on the site, all of them excellent shots, but many of them very similar to each other. If you were looking for a shot of her, would you go through all these? No, you'd maybe look at the first couple of pages. It's a lot of server space taken up, without really adding anything to the site.

I also scanned approx. 50000 slides, and I accept that these will never be good enough for this site, even if I had the time to photoshop them, so any interesting ones from this collection will be posted elsewhere.

[Jens Boldt]

I think the question of how many photos of one single ship do we need can't be answered and in fact this number can't be limited.

As Clyde said Shipspotting.com is a collection of individual member's albums.

Big ports like Hamburg attract a lot of shipspotters, local ones (and many guests who are returning on a regular basis). So we often have the situation of 4 or 5 or even more (if it's a special event like a first call) guys and girls taking photos from the same location on the same day here.
As you can imagine these photos will all be quite similar. Now who will decide who can upload photos of this event? Or would it be like the fastest uploader is the lucky one?

And if we put a limit to the total amount of photos of one ship, how high would that number be? 500 photos? Then for example we wouldn't have had the chance to see the great photo of Royal Viking Star taken in the late 70's which is currently in the top three of the day. It's photo No. 505 of this ship...

And another example... Here at Hamburg there's me and another photographer (Andreas Hoppe) who often take photos of ships moored at various places around Hamburg harbor. Sometimes he uploads his photos first, sometimes I do. See our photos of Desert Rhapsody (IMO 9321005) where we now have 4 (out of 12 photos in total) more or less similar photos of the same ship in the same place. But what should we do now, Andreas and me? Come to an agreement that when we have the same photos of the same ship he can only upload his photos if it's an odd-numbered day, otherwise I may upload mine?

A last thought... imagine I just started shipspotting here at Hamburg this year and we had a limit to the total amount of photos of one ship. Depending on how high the limit is I might have problems uploading photos of all the regular boxers and cruisers here at Hamburg which in this case to me are new, but are well covered here (see e.g. Royal Viking Star above). I might come to the conclusion that I'd better collect stamps...

Cheers,
Jens

[simonwp]

The point is Jens, if you have a quick look before uploading, and see that Andreas has already uploaded a photographs almost identical to yours, why would you upload??? Who does it benefit? How does it improve the site??

I also have a friend who has taken many similar photographs to me over they years around the Humber ports. I don't post my shot if his is on the site first (apart from one occasion, when I missed his shot and was initially accused of copying - all settled amicably), especially if his shot is better than mine.

I don't take photographs with the prime aim of posting on here. I take photographs for my own enjoyment. I only put them on here if I think they will add something to the site.

[Patrick Hill]

Morning Paul,

Wish I had the time to scan all my photos, no where near that many to go but finding the time is not easy.

Like you, I usually check before posting (if only to get the IMO ) - if better exist I only post if the view is different and now that you're posting Humber regulars I may not need to scan some of mine

Keep up the good work, between you, me and PWR we should have the past shipping of the river sown up!

Rgds

Patrick

[simonwp]

Retiring gave me the time, and downsizing the reason, as we just don't have the room to store them now. Now I've done that, it's time to share some of them.......some of them are rubbish, especially the older one's, but others worthwhile. the Humber now seems to be one of the better covered areas.

[Jens Boldt]

The point is Jens, if you have a quick look before uploading, and see that Andreas has already uploaded a photographs almost identical to yours, why would you upload??? Who does it benefit? How does it improve the site??

I also have a friend who has taken many similar photographs to me over they years around the Humber ports. I don't post my shot if his is on the site first (apart from one occasion, when I missed his shot and was initially accused of copying - all settled amicably), especially if his shot is better than mine.

I don't take photographs with the prime aim of posting on here. I take photographs for my own enjoyment. I only put them on here if I think they will add something to the site.

Well, I think we have a slightly different approach to this website then. You're approach is fine by me,  but I'm afraid it can't and shouldn't be this website's policy.

I also take the photos for my own enjoyment, BUT I also like to share them. That's as much enjoyment for me as taking the photos.

I believe that if I should only add photos when there's a benefit or an improvement to the website - let's face it -  I could almost stop uploading photos. And I believe that under these aspects most shipspotters could do so. That's what I was trying to explain in my previous post.

Thinking about it I came to the conclusion that almost any ship is sufficiently covered with let's say 50 photos. From all angles, sailing, berthed, in dry dock, under construction... 50 should be enough. Wouldn't you agree? Ok, let's throw in 25 more for changes of name or livery and possible
casualties.

The majority of shipspotters would be thrown back on their own enjoyment as there's hardly anything to share anymore which would add to the website apart from the lucky ones who catch a new ship, a change in name etc or the ones who possess a wealth of ship photos of years gone by.

In the end we'd be left with an elite class of uploaders and a vast majority which is unable to add something because one way or the other it already exists here...

[Hannes van Rijn]

I agree completely with jens explanation.leave this site for which it was set up,for enthusiastic shipsspotters who want to share their photos with others.

[Patrick Hill]

I agree completely with jens explanation.leave this site for which it was set up,for enthusiastic shipsspotters who want to share their photos with others.

That's fine in principal, what we have to remember is that although is this site is FREE to us, someone, somewhere has to pick up the bill for storage and usage. Maybe it would be in our best interests to try to police ourselves a little better - for example, WILSON HOOK 9017434 - one poster has posted 18 photos of this vessel taken in the same general locations. Could it be suggested that if we do wish to post the latest photos that we maybe also delete older ones along the way? This way may help those providing the service? Or to look at it another way, where will we post if the site has to close?

As an aside, also relating to WILSON HOOK - it looks like at least three posters caught her recently on the same day and location and all posted similar views - I think this is what simonwp was getting at.

[Captain Carlitos]

I agree with what arises in principle.
What more interested in the photo or the ship?
Based on the policy of the web, I have seen terrible pictures that do not delete the admin and pictures of me that are better able've seen disappear. For example, some colque days ago one of the F105 frigate and me have been deleted because according to the admin was dark, because I do not agree, pictured were visible to the welding helmet lines. Anyway, I think a great web, but I think there should be more fair when you delete a picture and let us both favoritism.
Work for the love of sailing, not to see who makes the best photo.

Rgds Carlos Go

[PWR]

This is a lovely site keep as it is   Cheers

[simonwp]

I suppose what could inform any discussion about multiple posts is if anyone can tell us at what point the site would be full, and what would happen at that point.