Author Topic: ARKLOW RULER 'PROBLEM?  (Read 13087 times)

Offline brimar

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ARKLOW RULER 'PROBLEM?
« on: December 15, 2013, 11:58:22 PM »
Arklow Ruler imo 9344502 en route Felixstowe to Newport is in difficult postion at 2350 15/12/13 stopped for some hours in Position 2.9 miles SW Bolt Head (Salcombe) with SW Wind of approx 30 knots on a weather shore. (now showing at anchor)
Arklow Field imo 9527673 from Drogheda to Ipswich has now altered course and is now standing by 1.2 miles from Arklow Ruler.

Offline Kelvin Davies

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Re: ARKLOW RULER 'PROBLEM?
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2013, 06:54:35 AM »
Still there, 6 hours later.
At least they now have a tug (Union Boxer) standing by.

Offline brimar

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Re: ARKLOW RULER 'PROBLEM?
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2013, 08:03:12 AM »
At 0800 Belgium AHT 'Union Boxer' imo 9537537 (enroute Zeebrugge to Luanda Angola)still standing by. Arklow Field now continued on passage.

Offline Rexroth

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Re: ARKLOW RULER 'PROBLEM?
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2013, 09:55:43 AM »
Am I the only one to feel increasingly concerned about messages such as this being posted on a forum? There is a danger that they can cause unnecessary anxiety and distress to friends and relatives of the crew.

Offline brimar

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Re: ARKLOW RULER 'PROBLEM?
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2013, 11:25:34 AM »
I am pleased to say that the Arklow Ruler is now under tow by the ahv Union Boxer and enroute to Plymouth, all crew where never in any danger as the Salcombe Lifeboat (only 4 miles away) were never called out and a sister ship was standing by.
 I am sorry that some members may feel that on reporting this under 'Shipping News and Information'and has caused any due stress & worry to friends and relations on shore. This was never intended.
   I will add that this was reported on local radio news this morning.           
« Last Edit: December 16, 2013, 11:29:27 AM by brimar »

Offline Phil English

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Re: ARKLOW RULER 'PROBLEM?
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2013, 11:49:45 AM »
Brimar,

Thanks for your comments and for keeping members up to date with news of general shipspotting interest. It's much appreciated.

Brgds
Phil

Offline brimar

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Re: ARKLOW RULER 'PROBLEM?
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2013, 01:18:31 PM »
Thanks for your welcome comments Phil. . .

 'ARKLOW RULER' under tow by 'Union Boxer' now changed destination to Fowey Cornwall !!!!


Offline Captain Ted

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Re: ARKLOW RULER 'PROBLEM?
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2013, 03:18:28 PM »
@ Rexroth

NO,,you are not,, goes long time already on my nerves,,and honestly, If I could, public usage of AIS would be switched off. However the point you brought up did not occur to me in this respect.
(I know a lot people use it for good cause, but unfortunately a lot also on speculation and no idea whats going on in reality and in the end the goes into speculations )

Invented was AIS under the umbrella of safety for ships, then it became apparent that too often AIS even contributed to misjudgements during navigation and resulting into accidents.
For plain navigation, in my personal opinion, AIS is useless. The only thing I can see there is the name of the other vessel and some data,s. Unfortunately a lot datas are only as good as the entered data into the system by that ship. In other words, one has to question always if the information the AIS gives is correct. With that questionable it renders itself useless for the mariner.

What it became instead is a controlling device for VTS,s such as in the English Channel
and in ports and along coast lines and of course as here, for speculations.
The english channel is radar controlled from shore (as more or less all european coast lines nowadays)and ALL ships HAVE to report to land stations(which is a good thing) but that means also that AIS is even for them not really a thing to HAVE/NEED because they track the ships already in the radars !!.

And yes, I know that a lot disagree with me, but withhin the international shipping from the ships sides, i.e. the peoples who have to deal daily with it the picture looks quite different.
And yes, I know it is here to stay and I realise also, that the future of shipping will be more and more restricted and regulated. I dare to say that the future of shipping will be like airplanes today, that Master,s will have to submit passage plans to a not yet invented authority and get the approval. To the fact that LIRT,s are already in place and therefore
all ships can be located every 6 hrs because it sends a signal with course/speed/position it will also mean that the MASTER,s will have to ask for permission for diversions from the passage plan. If that would be not approved/rejected from someone ashore in an instant, then a responsibility vacuum will result. The real question is of course who is responsible
when rejection comes.,the Master or the land institution who rejects ?
A very delicate question to say the least.

Example
I left the Rio de la Plata in Sept 2012, a moment after we dropped the pilot at Recalada pilot station, the chief engineer called the bridge and said he needs to stop and fix something. I called the VTS,s Montevideo and asked for permission to anchor across the
traffic lane (no other traffic in the vicinity) about 3/4 mile to the north (a short term anchorage area for ships to montevideo or ships into the Rio de la Plata) and they refused. Instead they adsvised me to go 22 miles further East to another anchorage area. When I said we need to stop, they threatened me with Coast Guard actions etc etc. We went then for 5 hrs with dead slow to the other anchorage area knowingly that our main engine could give up on us any moment and which may be worst, with much more damage and or repair times then in the first anchorage. My experience, also with other VTS,s world wide,,the last one who helps is the VTS,s. They have only one focus, keep problems away. Prime example is the last big spanish oil spill, only happened because a incompetent VTS directed the vessel into the open ocean and not into a safe bay.
Of course, this a private opinion only


 
NOW!!!,,,if we could get rid of the sailors,,how safe shipping would be !!!!!!!!

Offline Rexroth

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Re: ARKLOW RULER 'PROBLEM?
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2013, 04:03:20 PM »
general shipspotting interest

Sorry but I fail to see that it is of general shipspotting interest. Let me assure you, Mr English, that such messages DO cause distress. I know from personal experience. Obviously you have no personal knowledge of being in such a situation. If you had, you would not have made such a glib comment. I'll leave it at glib - I could say what I really think.

If, as Brimar now says, the vessel was never in any danger, may I ask why he describes the ship as being "in a difficult position" in his opening post?

And Captain Ted, I agree with every word you have written. I have memories of being directed to a totally unsafe anchorage by French authorities when on a coaster carrying ammonium nitrate and facing a severe storm in the English Channel. Our vessel was nothing more than a name on a screen. You are equally correct in saying that AIS gives rise to speculation, especially amongst those who have little idea about shipping.

Offline Phil English

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Re: ARKLOW RULER 'PROBLEM?
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2013, 05:09:18 PM »
Rexroth,

I am sure that the vast majority of members understand that Brimar simply meant to provide the community here with some helpful information which was not intended to cause distress in any way whatsoever.

If you fail to see that, there is little more to say and I request that the webmaster puts a stop to any further debate on this matter.

Brgds
Phil

Offline victor radio74

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Re: ARKLOW RULER 'PROBLEM?
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2013, 05:11:00 PM »
On this cuestion and only for the best accuracy in relation to the PRESTIGE oil spill mentioned by Capt. Ted I must say that the order to send the ship into the ocean came from Madrid . It was a major problem in Spain with political responsibilities never assumed
« Last Edit: December 16, 2013, 11:55:10 PM by victor radio74 »

Offline Rexroth

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Re: ARKLOW RULER 'PROBLEM?
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2013, 05:46:01 PM »
Rexroth,

I am sure that the vast majority of members understand that Brimar simply meant to provide the community here with some helpful information which was not intended to cause distress in any way whatsoever.

If you fail to see that, there is little more to say and I request that the webmaster puts a stop to any further debate on this matter.

Brgds
Phil

There was no suggestion whatsoever that he intended to cause distress. It is the result, the consequence, not the intention that troubles me.

If you fail to see that, there is little more to say and I too request that the webmaster exercises his right of censorship.

Offline Timsen

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Re: ARKLOW RULER 'PROBLEM?
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2013, 08:34:55 PM »
I do not agree that such topics cause concern. I think the message was clear, it was a useful piece of information, thanks to the author for that, and I very much believe it is the right place to post it in the forum, like it has done in so many cases before without creating discussions.

Offline Rexroth

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Re: ARKLOW RULER 'PROBLEM?
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2013, 09:27:42 PM »
I do not agree that such topics cause concern. I think the message was clear, it was a useful piece of information, thanks to the author for that, and I very much believe it is the right place to post it in the forum, like it has done in so many cases before without creating discussions.

As the great British philosopher A J Ayer once said, "past futures are no guide to future futures". Just because something happened to seem non-problematical in the past does not mean it will always be non-problematical in the future. I raised an issue that concerned me. It will not concern 99.9% of forum members because they will not have been in a position where they have read about a so-called crisis on a ship thanks to a panic-inducing posting on a forum such as this (no, it was not this one). You have not been in such an unfortunate position so you can have no idea about the concern such postings can cause.

I was discussing the problem with a colleague this afternoon and he told me that he thought that one forum used by airline pilots has banned comments about aircraft supposedly in difficulties. I don't know if that is true. Anyway, I have said my piece.

Offline b47b56

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Re: ARKLOW RULER 'PROBLEM?
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2013, 10:29:30 PM »
The post is absolutely unuseful from the sight of shipspotting. It looks like so called "gutter press", "yellow pages".
Also marinetraffic and same theme sites are not showing real situation on board vessels, OK it is useful when you are waiting for the vessel when you are spotting at NOK, Elbe, Maas or your local port, but it is unuseful when vessel miles from you, even it is something happening ask you question "What can I do now, what help I can provide" and you 'll see that you can do nothing... In case something happen leave it to authorities and do not make any sensation (it is enough News Portals to do this job) that I am the first how found it, normally crewmembers 'll make desition how to make the best in situation, of course life is unpredictable but this is life and if crews 'll have enough time they 'll do the best to survive if no - nobody can help them, and they 'll stay only in our memories...

Also Captain Ted is 100% right in his words about VTS, this is absolutely stupid thing which sometimes makes only problems, on my experience I remember help only from "Denmark" VTS in Great Belt and Oresund, they use AIS and have not so much questions, and made good advise during same problem as Captain Ted described. But the problem is how to make by authorities the best to prevent accidents is not solved and all systems are using mostly to find guilty part and make penalties.

Coming back to the first post, here on site we have category "Casualities" in which a lot of photos but the most part is done hours after the accident showing result, and only very few done at time of accident (hope nobody injured). So lets think to yourselves what is really important.

Regards, Yevgeniy.

 

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