Author Topic: Ship's names in ALL CAPS  (Read 41333 times)

Offline polsteam

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Ship's names in ALL CAPS
« on: June 19, 2012, 04:55:48 PM »
Not an obeying and humble subject, I take this democratic freedom to reply to or comment on some remarks found in another thread (related to ro-ro vessels), even though the discussion in that thread was closed in authoritarian way.


>>>  I'd be interested to hear what you would consider to be a RELIABLE source.

Equasis may be an ultimate (publicly accessible) authority in recording and displaying deficiencies and detentions of ships, however as far as details of ships themeselves are concerned it is very often not a reliable source.
To answer the above question - I think the most reliable "universal" sources (for the whole of the world fleet) are those in the kind of Sea-Web and Lloyd's MIU or Lloyds List Intelligence databases, which are extremely expensive and not accessible to most of us - users of Shipspotting, although even those are not fully reliable.


>>>  Meanwhile, I don't get why some people are so hung up over whether ship names are written here in capitals or not.

Because there are people who are more careless (about many things in life or selected areas only) and there are people, who are more careful and like the idea of doing things with quality.
What is private (writing ship's names in someone's own, private shiplover's collection records and notes or photo descriptions) that (let it) be private and should by done to own (private) individual taste and choice.
But data displayed on Shipspotting is something public, which "serves" many people. And here not private tastes of one or a few individuals should be decisive, but some reasonable, common, essential (content-related, substantive) standards should be kept and observed.

ALL CAPS in ships' names certainly brings more confusion, because it "hides" the real, actual name as recorded in most ship's documents and most registers.

Furthermore, as I said before, admin's method of "ticking off", which photographs have already been "worked", and which have not been touched by him should NOT be visible (showing up as messy and confusing (non-uniform) way of writing the names - with some ships named normally, other in ALL CAPS) to all users.  
Admin is one, users are hundereds.  I do not see why a method convenient to one person should be imposed on so many users (if this method is wrong as it actually is from the point of view of how ship names should be written)...


>>> It's of no importance and if Cedric wants to use it as a method of checking that's entirely his business

"it's of no importance" is just an opinion (of some, not all) and not a fact.

- so let it be indeed His business and let it (the way of marking) be NOT visible to users... (in shape of non-uniform, thus confusing and aesthetically disturbing writting of ships names)...

« Last Edit: June 24, 2012, 01:38:22 PM by polsteam »
despite using "polsteam" for my nick I have NO personal (professional) or business connections with the company of the same name

Offline Arnes

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Re: Ship's napes in ALL CAPS
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2012, 05:19:30 PM »
I don't agree with you, Polsteam. I mean ship's names should always be in Capital Letters. This way it is easier to find specific vessels, eg. if you are reading an article in a shipping magazine (and also on Internet). Lets for example take a look at information in Marine News. If ships names was not in capital letters, it will be much more work to find what vessel, and also much easier to miss something. And sales/causalty/demolition would be much more difficult to follow if ship's names was not in capital letters.
Sometimes you may have to read almost a whole page to find out which vessels an article is about, with capital letters is is much easier to get a quick overview.
So my opinion is that ships names should be in Capital Letters, like Lloyd Register and other printed registers always have done. No need to change something that has been working good for decades.

Offline Kyle Stubbs

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Re: Ship's napes in ALL CAPS
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2012, 06:03:43 PM »
So, in your mind, would a "reliable" database be the federal documentation maintained by the flag state?
That seems resonable to me. Those agencies in charge of such registries are in principle the authority for the documentation of every vessel bearing their flag. Such information would then be the official way that the flag state believes the vessel's name exists.

While it would be impossible to take a look at every single flag state database, seeing as many aren't accesible online, we can inspect some that are, such as those of Canada and the United States.

To get a good idea, I decided to pull up a name that would pull up well over 100 results. If the naming style is consistent throughout that sample, I feel it is safe to assume it is consistent throughout the entire database.

First for the Transport Canada query, I searched for all vessel name beginning with the word "star." That search brought up 123 results, and each one was entered in all caps. From this we can see that the Canadian government views the proper presentation of a vessel's name as capitalized.

For the Coast Guard Vessel Documentation search, I queried all names beginning with "snow." This time around, I received 196 results, again all spelled out in all caps. Thus, we come to the same conclusion for US flagged vessels.

The Australian Maritime Safety Authority provides a list of registered vessels instead of a query. Once again, all listed names are in all caps.

Same thing for at least one flag of convenience, here's the list maintained by The Bahamas Maritime Authority.

While this is only a small portion of the world's vessels are noted by this sample, I have noticed a trend. I did not leave any out, each and every country-maintained listing of ships I found shows vessels listed with names in all capitals.

So, if the reality is that individualism in tyopgraphy exists only on the ship's hull as a matter of owner's preference that could be changed on a whim, but officially the name is carried in capital letters, there exists a big argument for all names to be typed in accordance with the official documentation. Or, at this point, for at least all vessels flagged in Australia, The Bahamas, Canada, and the United States.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 06:08:16 PM by Kyle Stubbs »
"Action speaks louder than words but not nearly as often." -Mark Twain

Offline polsteam

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Re: Ship's napes in ALL CAPS
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2012, 06:08:59 PM »
...in Capital Letters, like Lloyd Register and other printed registers always have done.

oh, really ?...

http://www.paullee.com/titanic/LL_large.JPG

despite using "polsteam" for my nick I have NO personal (professional) or business connections with the company of the same name

Offline Allan RO

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Re: Ship's napes in ALL CAPS
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2012, 06:09:26 PM »
With respect Arnes

There are a number of ships around where the names are in Lower case, i.e, the tankers of Stolt.  So using all capitals does not ring true for these.

and what about names beginning with initials, CMA CMA is OK but some others are open to interpretation; on Equasis they are shown as all capitals, but on this site only the first letter is given as a capital.  

And then what about what I'll call regional letters, as far as I am aware there is only English where no accents or other devices are used.  But most registers ignore these, some inserting an 'e' to cover the German umlaut, but no other indications of the devices used particularly in Polish, Slavic languages, etc.  

Checking a number of sources is the only way to enearth the truth, and seeing the ship is the only way.   I have seen Deusseldorf Express listed in registers, but on the ship it is D

Offline polsteam

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Re: Ship's napes in ALL CAPS
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2012, 06:15:56 PM »
and Polsteam, what indeed is a reliable source.  I have recently looked up on Lloyds Shipfinder a couple of Hansa Heavy Lift vessels.  Each one came up with 'no previous names' despite there being photos on this site of them actually trading under Beluga names !!  


I think I included in my opinion the following:  "...although even those are not fully reliable."
« Last Edit: June 20, 2012, 08:39:44 AM by polsteam »
despite using "polsteam" for my nick I have NO personal (professional) or business connections with the company of the same name

Offline Kyle Stubbs

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Re: Ship's napes in ALL CAPS
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2012, 08:37:35 PM »
I'll agree with typing everything exactly as it's printed on the hull when somebody can show me a way to stack "OF" and "THE" on top of each other in tiny font in the name entry of

EXPLORER  OF  SEAS
                  THE
"Action speaks louder than words but not nearly as often." -Mark Twain

Offline Dave Forbes

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Re: Ship's napes in ALL CAPS
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2012, 07:25:38 AM »
It's quite easy really , just copy what's on the ship's bow.

Offline davidships

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Re: Ship's names in ALL CAPS
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2012, 01:40:36 PM »
...in Capital Letters, like Lloyd Register and other printed registers always have done.
oh, really ?...
http://www.paullee.com/titanic/LL_large.JPG

Well that's not correct.  Lloyd's Register used to use lower case with capital initials until, I think, about 1950.  See http://www.plimsollshipdata.org/ .  Note that at that time they included at least some "non-English" letters -

Offline CedricH

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Re: Ship's napes in ALL CAPS
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2012, 07:23:05 PM »
Hi,

as I said in the previous thread, I do listen to, and respect, everyone's opinion. However, there are a couple of points which I want to address.

>>>  I'd be interested to hear what you would consider to be a RELIABLE source.

Equasis may be an ultimate (publicly accessible) authority in recording and displaying deficiencies and detentions of ships, however as far as details of ships themeselves are concerned it is very often not a reliable source.
To answer the above question - I think the most reliable "universal" sources (for the whole of the world fleet) are those in the kind of Sea-Web and Lloyd's MIU or Lloyds List Intelligence databases, which are extremely expensive and not accessible to most of us - users of Shipspotting, although even those are not fully reliable.

If Equasis is not reliable, can you suggest another database which all our members can access for free? You said yourself that even an expensive database like Lloyd's isn't perfect
« Last Edit: June 20, 2012, 07:26:51 PM by Cedric Hacke »
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Offline Kelvin Davies

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Re: Ship's napes in ALL CAPS
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2012, 07:02:36 AM »
Dear me!
Or, as my grand mother used to say; "What a to do!".
The idea of a ship's name is to identify it. Regardless of whether or not the name is written in upper of lower case or indeed a mix of both, it is still the name. And, if you are searching for a ship, not only do we have the alphabet to help us out, there are things like IMO numbers.
Who cares?
If, on the other hand, people are desperate for standardisation, then take that one step further and insist that all photos of a particular ship conform to the same "standard". All shot from the same distance and the same angle etc etc.
By the way, irrespective of upper & lower case issues, surely this topic's title is mis-spelled? Isn't a "nape" that bit at the back of your neck?
Kelvin

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Re: Ship's napes in ALL CAPS
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2012, 07:31:41 AM »
Yes, Kelvin,
This silly thread is becoming a bit of a pain in the NAPE - in fact it started off as one.
I think the admin is doing a doubly good job. Sorting out the pics and introducing and maintaining a "house style"  for his categories at the same time.
Bob
« Last Edit: June 21, 2012, 07:40:57 AM by Bob Scott »

Offline Patrick Hill

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Re: Ship's napes in ALL CAPS
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2012, 09:14:35 AM »
Another shipping site I frequent has a simple rule - case is the same as on the ship. As most are capitalised this is the standard, although some ships do have mixed case and so the photos are titled as such.

Offline Robert Smith

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Re: Ship's napes in ALL CAPS
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2012, 06:20:25 PM »
I fully agree with Bob. Let's stop this argument. Would you like to copy the names which are sometimes applied by tape on the ship's bow by some poor illiterate bugger? And as far as the "old" days are concerned, I was quite happy with my big yearly volumes of the Lloyd's register. They gave the bookshelves a bit of distinction...

 :D


 

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