ShipSpotting.com Forum
Shipspotters all over the world => Shipping News and information => Topic started by: Jeff Thoreson on October 02, 2015, 06:03:05 PM
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http://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/news/local/coast-guard-searching-missing-cargo-ship-out-jacks/nnskx/
U.S. flagged container ship EL FARO, which departed Jacksonville, FL for San Juan, PR on Tuesday, is missing in Hurricane Joaquin.
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EL FARO on shipspotting: http://www.shipspotting.com/gallery/photo.php?lid=2093670
more: http://www.shipspotting.com/gallery/search.php?query=El+Faro&x=26&y=8
Regards Peter
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Yesterday the storm claimed the former European coaster MINOUCHE (IMO 7930553) north of Haiti. All 12 crewmen made it off the sinking vessel and were rescued by Coast Guard helicopter.
Image of Shipspotting as HERMANN C. BOYE: http://www.shipspotting.com/gallery/photo.php?lid=2246137
New story: http://washington.cbslocal.com/2015/10/02/u-s-coast-guard-rescues-12-from-sinking-cargo-ship/
Kind Regards,
Kyle
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What I wonder about this whole thing is that the hurricane was known as slow moving and/or stationary
for a while, it wasn,t a storm which just sprung up !!! Why the El Faro then did not navigate through the Old Bahama channel to avoid either the storm or the bad weather around it ?
It is apparently known that she reported engine problems and a 15 degree list before loosing contact, due to fact that the last known position of the ship was close to the center of the storm and that we know that the storm moved very slow SW with the forecast to stop and reverse to the N-NE, which it did. Why then they seemingly really attempted to go through it nevertheless ?
Going North of the storm would be not good,,because of the future forecast to the N-NE so the only other option would have been south and due to fact that the Bahamas are there the only option would have been via Florida Straits into Bahama Channel (Between Cuba and southern bahama islands) I estimate it would be a day more sailing roughly.
Any thoughts?
baffles me with nowadays weather informations available to avoid such storms in the first place.
capt ted
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I might add and clarify,,that a hurricane one can navigate around whereas a cold front or any other frontal system one can not because it is stretching usually over a long distance ,In fall/winter days easy the whole atlantic and goes down like a line (front). In other words you can not avoid it.
This makes to a certain degree, for ships, a frontal system sometimes more dangerous than a hurricane.
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Still no news of her after two days.
In those conditions with a 15 degree list and no power she will have been beam on and rolling heavily, as such it would not have taken much for her to broach to and be overcome by the sea.
Capt Ted is right on the money with his observations on her route and weather forecasting, I fail to understand just what she was doing there in the first place.
With the shipping industry being run as it is today, I wonder just how much commercial pressure her Master was under from his employer to take a chance on the weather and avoid delay.
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Fully agree with Capn Ted, ship should have got out of the dangerous quadrant by using the Florida Strait. As far as I recall it used to be mandatory in UK flag ships when I was doing my tickets. There are unknowns at the moment: what was the situation of owners/managers? How much fuel was on board? What was the stability of the ship? There appeared to be large openings in the upper hull - if she took water in would she be able to shed it immediately? What was her condition (I know she must have been within class) but she was 40 years old? I remember when I worked in LA, Matson had some similar ships & I was never very impressed with them - did they have a military function if required?
For the moment let us all hope that the vessel will be found & that loved ones will be reunited. We all know it's tough out there & our hearts & prayers go out to those on board & those who wait hopefully.
Tony
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Best wishes and good luck to all the crew of the container ship El Faro, hoping for a full rescue and recovery.
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The only news so far is that a life ring was spotted by Coast Guard C-130 and confirmed to be from EL FARO by helicopter.
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This ship as many other sisters (for example the WESTWARD VENTURE)were able to be chartered to Military Sealift Command for various necessity including reposition of vehicles destroyed in action in Iraq, collect of the garbage and delivery in some USN Bases in the Mediterranean, goods and supplies exchange to the military troops around the world.
The first deck is a big garage, no ship's ramps, but shore ones as for normal TOTE Shipping loading practice.
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Pretty misleading title to this first article-"objects" include a container identified by TOTE as coming from El Faro and an oil slick. Pretty clearly a debris field. :(
http://abcnews.go.com/International/search-continues-missing-us-cargo-ship-caught-hurricane/story?id=34236660
More:
http://elfaroincident.com/el-faro-updates/tote-media-release-10-4-15-1230pm-est/
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One body has been found during the search, the Coast Guard says.
http://heavy.com/news/2015/10/el-faro-missing-cargo-container-ship-vessel-search-update-americans-crew-owner-captain-coast-guard-video-photos-life-ring-joaquin-atlantic-jacksonville/
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This morning in the Tampa Tribune newspaper that USCG declares vessel as sunk.
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From the Maritime-Connector news about the El Faro sinking
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Florida maritime attorney Rod Sullivan, who closely monitored the the El Faro incident, said El Faro should have been retired.
"In my opinion, this vessel had reached beyond its useful life," Sullivan told First Coast News.
The El Faro was built in 1975. Given its age, said Sullivan, the cargo ship should have remained in port. Sullivan, who never boarded the freighter, graduated from the U.S. Merchant Marine Academy, served five years, holds several licenses and has practiced maritime law for 35 years.
unqoute
the whole text below
http://maritime-connector.com/news/security-and-piracy/coast-guard-missing-cargo-ship-sank-in-hurricane/
Well I guess on the end its all about money.
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Shouldn't speculate on what happened but it struck me that this ship's "garage deck"created an accident waiting to happen. I reckon that if water got in there, so high up on the ship, and started to "slosh around" (free surface effect) the ship would probably capsize in the blink of an eye; even faster than happened with the HERALD OF FREE ENTERPRISE.
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@BobS
Keep in mind these type of ships are around 40 plus years and to my knowledge never one of them sank and /or had stability problems because of water came through the big open doors.
I saw one of them years back close up in San Juan and those decks are widen open on both sides !!!
The flow off should be not a problem, the stability could be under certain circumstances,but then,,all container ships, special smaller ones should have then the same problem again and again and they do not to my knowledge.
On top of it, it happened in a hurricane where a lot of ships will not perform perfect, to say the least.
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Possibly the reason none of these ships has sunk is that, until this one, none had been called on to face the full force of a hurricane, especially (as some reports indicate) after having experienced a power failure. And of course, if not for the stupid Jones Act, that ship would have been recyled into razor blades or rebars decades ago. Similarly, if the Americans didn't have such stupid gun laws, an awful lot of dead people would still be alive today. Regarding these old ships, they were, as I said in my earler post, an accident waiting to happen. And now it has!
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Well Bob
That might be,,but a lot ships sank in such storms before or even in lesser storms all around the world
That none of these ever came in such a situation would however also speak of the good design of the ships also when they look arckward and good qualification of the crews which sailed them.
Most probably we never will find out because nobody seems to have survived the sinking and therefore whatever is afterwards found in investigations will be to a big extent "could have happened or could have been"
For my part, when one looks at the track of the vessel, I wonder why she did not go via Old Bahama channel and the whole thing would not have happened in the first place.
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For my part, when one looks at the track of the vessel, I wonder why she did not go via Old Bahama channel and the whole thing would not have happened in the first place.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing Captain Ted.
Regards, Brian.
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I must say that I agree with the reflexion put forward by the Florida lawyer, this tragedy would ultimately qualify as a Jones Act induced tragedy. There is only so much things you can renew on a ship that has been run hard fo 45 years... There is a reason that MOST commercial vessels sailing foreign going rarely see 30 years of service, let alone 45.
Maybe 33 deaths will be enough to send a wake-up call, it did not register after the Marine Electric casualty in the 80's unfortunately. If the owners had the choice to built foreign instead of trying to stretch an asset beyond its useful life could this have been avoided ? There would most likely still be an American Merchant Marine today, and safer, newer, more economically viable ships sailing.
This will sound probably harsh, but I know its not going to get questionned, it never is, it would be unpatriotic to do so.
Those who do not learn the lessons of history are bound to repeat the same mistakes.
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@ Piermaster
Hindsight is a wonderful thing Captain Ted.
Regards, Brian.
I am certain that I would have gone Old Bahama Channel, one will never find out why the Master went the other way. Fortunately I work for a company which has the stand point the Master decides and nobody else which comes down to, "screw the ETA/schedule if needed". It is a very good situation/condition to work under.
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I must say that I agree with the reflexion put forward by the Florida lawyer, this tragedy would ultimately qualify as a Jones Act induced tragedy. There is only so much things you can renew on a ship that has been run hard fo 45 years... There is a reason that MOST commercial vessels sailing foreign going rarely see 30 years of service, let alone 45.
Maybe 33 deaths will be enough to send a wake-up call, it did not register after the Marine Electric casualty in the 80's unfortunately. If the owners had the choice to built foreign instead of trying to stretch an asset beyond its useful life could this have been avoided ? There would most likely still be an American Merchant Marine today, and safer, newer, more economically viable ships sailing.
This will sound probably harsh, but I know its not going to get questionned, it never is, it would be unpatriotic to do so.
Those who do not learn the lessons of history are bound to repeat the same mistakes.
Why is the onus on the law that's been in use for decades? All US maritime companies have to be familiar with it and base their operations to suit it. Shouldn't it be the responsibility of those companies operating the vessels to know their limits and replace them before they become dangerous? TOTE, the owner of Sea Star Lines, certainly saw fit on the Alaska run, and replaced the sisters of EL FARO, which had managed to survive the rigors of the North Pacific for many years, with a pair of new, US-built Ro/Ros. In fact, EL FARO's replacement also are currently under construction as well.
However, what if one of those replacements, had it already entered service, encountered teething problems and lost power in the same storm? Would it have made it through going beam-to in a Category 4 hurricane? It's probably designed to, as was EL FARO, but life has a way of messing with best laid plans.
But, instead of sitting at home speculating and playing the blame game, we all should just mourn the lives lost, and praise the Coast Guard search and rescue teams risking their own lives to seek truth.
Kind Regards,
Kyle
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At least the newer vessel would not have those SOLAS exempted open type life boats - and that too points the blame to the Jones Act.
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OK gentleman,,,then I would say,,the proponents of too old,, where is old ?
10 years,,, 20 years,, 30 years,,or only then when something happened ?
The vessel was fully certified by ABS a respected classification company, inspected by USCG
roughly 7-8 month ago (standard is every 12 month rough)
I had a breakdown with a 2500 TEU vessel in the middle of the N-Atlantic in force 11-12
Reason why the engine broke down, damn oil level sensors which activated because the ship hit a few waves
in rapid succession.
The vessel was at that time two years old,,, also replacing it ?
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@ Lappino
you are sure they are SOLAS exempted, because that would mean they are under SOLAS standard
may be exempted to be renewed/replaced, but most probably SOLAS approved still. ?
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Of course the vessel had SOLAS approved lifeboats, but they were exempted from the latest requirements due to the age of the vessel, i.e. LSA code requires motor driven lifeboats, while one of El Faro's boats was manually powered.
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@ Lappino,,ok thanks for the info,,appreciated
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Of course the vessel had SOLAS approved lifeboats, but they were exempted from the latest requirements due to the age of the vessel, i.e. LSA code requires motor driven lifeboats, while one of El Faro's boats was manually powered.
The LSA code only requires enclosed, motor driven lifeboats (TEMPSC) for vessels built after 1986. In that sense the LSA fit on EL FARO was perfectly within the regulations for a vessel of her age, no exemptions are required.
My current vessel (passenger ship) has open lifeboats, only two of which have engines - the remainder have oars and sails.
Even if EL FARO was equipped with TEMPSC, launching one of them safely from their stowage position (very high) in those weather conditions would have been impossible. The ship is your best lifeboat in such a situation, so you stay onboard until the bitter end, unfortunately that also means it's often too late to abandon safely.
Even if they did abandon in good order, due to the weather conditions the chances of survival for even the best equipped survivors was and is effectively non existent.
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You are right, what I wanted to say is that the latest requirements did not apply to the vessel due to her age - and this only reinforces the problems with the Jones Act.
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Case in Point
http://www.seattletimes.com/business/missing-el-faro-cargo-ship-highlights-vulnerability-of-aging-us-fleet/
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El Faro VDR (Voyage Data Recorder) transcripts:
http://dms.ntsb.gov/pubdms/search/document.cfm?docID=447547&docketID=58116&mkey=92109
The end got me very emotional. :(
Tragic, but fascinating stuff.
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New York's "Vanity Fair" is not where one normally looks for a well-written shipping story, but this re-telling by William Langewiesche of the tragic events of October 2015 as recorded on EL FARO's bridge VDR is a most worthy exception.
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/04/inside-el-faro-the-worst-us-maritime-disaster-in-decades (https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/04/inside-el-faro-the-worst-us-maritime-disaster-in-decades)
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Indeed a good article.
Looking at how it all started (choosing the route and what possible influenced the decision from the Masters side) and what then all happened during the trip, the seemingly none consideration of weather information or at least applying the information timely is kind of fascinating to me. What struck me most, that neither the officers on the bridge nor the Master at any time really were aware what track the hurricane took and reacted accordingly.