ShipSpotting.com Forum
Shipspotters all over the world => Site related news, functions and modules => Topic started by: Brian Brady on November 02, 2016, 09:52:38 AM
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Hello All. Yesterday evening I was down at Bridge Street, Goole ( my home town ) I was waiting for the sun to set whilst stood on South Dock Bridge, a nice photo can be had there at this time of the year of the sun setting behind the preserved No 5 Coal Hoist. At the opposite side of the dock was mv CRISTINA. imo 9489546 catching the evening sunlight. I was taking shots of her while the sun was going down when a Dock Security man asked me what I was taking photos of ! I told him that they were of the sunset and the ship and asked him why he was asking ! He answered that he had to ask me these questions as his bosses and those above them did not want people taking any photos of the docks !! I politely told him that I was on a public footpath and road too, so I was not breaking any rules ! He then mentioned that it was to do with terrorism so photos of the Dock area are banned. I told him that the main street ran right through the Dock area, this includes three swing bridges and a by-pass, so it has access to all. He then said that screens will be put up in these areas ! Have any other members been approached about this ? Personally I think that ABP are going a bit too far !!
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Brian,
You took the correct cause of action, as you were on a public path/roadway, he had no right to ask you these questions anyway and you should have told him so. Carry on taking your pictures and if he or someone else asks you the same question just ignore them and if they persist ask them what their going to do about it. Just don't be intimidated by these jobs worth's and as to erecting a screen, well I'll believe it when I see it; if they do though invest in a long monopod, a pair of stepladders or even a drone ;D
Remember as well, that they have no powers to ask you to delete a picture and that it is a criminal offence for them to do so; this applies to the police as well, only a court has those powers, at least in the UK.
Jon.
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Thank you for your reply Jon. I carried on taking photos and did not let him bother me. As you say a jobsworth with some even worse ones with stripes above him no doubt ! As for the terrorism maybe they should contact Google Earth as well eh !!
Best Wishes,
Bry.
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Hello All
I think we have got the USA to blame for all this stupidity, and if i was a terroist i think i might be looking at Immingham/Killingholme instead of Goole
Best Wishes
Adrian
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US paranoia indeed, Adrian. I caused a bit of a row the last ime I mentioned this subject on this site so I will merely quote the IMO on the ISPS Code
"What is the ISPS Code?
The International Ship and Port Facility Security Code (ISPS Code) is a comprehensive set of measures to enhance the security of ships and port facilities, developed in response to the perceived threats to ships and port facilities in the wake of the 9/11 attacks in the United States"
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Thank you for your replies Adrian and Bob. I know that the container handling parts of the Docks have more security around them, I can relate to that. I think that Dock Security have nothing at all to do with Public Roads, Pavements & Pathways.
Cheers & Best Wishes,
Bry
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Hello everybody!
I think there are a lot of sources via Internet where is possible to collect all kind of information - wikimapia, google, facebook and so on. Anyway had same situation in different countries and I think if You are situated at open streets, squares, bridges, etc, there are no reason to stop You to make photos of the ships or something else, same as You are making selfie on the bridge.
Bob told right - paranoia. Lets switch off Internet and Cell Phones with Cameras, drop new iPhones to the waste -
or lets do better - continue enjoying shipspotting and forget about this reasonless made security stupidity.
Regards.
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Brian,
Attached is a link to the ACPO (Police) guidance on taking of photographs and what Police Officers can and cannot legally do. I know you were dealing with Private Security but you were in a public place. Your attitude was correct, always be polite despite what he or she may be saying to you. My advice is to carry a copy of the police guidance or similar (a quick search of the internet should help) and if you ever feel threatened in anyway just smile and walk away, and if sufficiently annoyed/worried contact the police and report you were threatened.
You could also contact ABP (see link below) and get their position, I couldn't find anything on their website about taking photographs.
Good luck and keep taking the photographs!
http://www.abports.co.uk/Contact_Us/Media_Enquiries/
http://www.theiac.org.uk/resourcesnew/filming-in-public/ACPO_Guidance_PhotographsPublicPlaces.pdf
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Hello Evgeniy, many thanks for your reply. I will look into some of this !
Best Wishes,
Bry.
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Hello Riverman2903, thanks for the links will have a look at these. I know in certain cities you need permission to photograph certain buildings etc. The Port of Goole has a few places where you can take photos of Ships without trespassing on the Dock Estate. I will carry on taking photos and maybe contact ABP for their views on the security company policy of approaching people in public areas !
Cheers & Best Wishes,
Bry.
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Hi Bry,
That's a worrying development. I did wonder if the fences erected on the wall of West Dock were going to be 'spotter-proof', but happily not. It's difficult to see how they could screen the walkways across the road bridges themselves. I would definitely be inclined to ask ABP for an explanation; I've no objection to being politely asked my motives, but to be told something is unlawful when it clearly isn't is not acceptable.
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This incident is nothing new. A few years ago I was accosted by an ABP security guard for taking photographs looking through the fence FROM the access road along the quay at a steam-hauled special train leaving Lowestoft station!
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Hello Eddie, when he said they were thinking about erecting screens I just laughed and said when are the signs on Bridge Street going to be changed to - No looking Right or Left.
Best Wishes,
Bry.
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Hello Vertiscol, I think that they have a blooming cheek asking that when like me you were on a public highway !!
Best Wishes,
Bry.
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I've been snapping ships at Goole for over thirty years, I used to have a Dock Pass which stipulated 'non-commercial photography purposes', which was OK by me. When I went to renew it I was informed I had to have full PPE? gear (Personal Protection Equipment?) Hard hat, Hi Vis Boots etc and thought stuff it I'll pursue my hobby from the highway or the public footpath.This was in the late 70's before the world went H & S mad.
The only time my activities were ever questioned by anyone was in Feb this year, 2016, on Bridge St,when a security guy puled up in his van and asked what I was doing. I told him I was just a sad shipspotter and had been for years, I showed him my notebook of ships spotted, and he was as nice as pie, he told me that his gaffers had told him to challenge people engaging in this activity and that was that. No probs.
I also spend a fair amount of time at Sth Gare at Middlesbrough and regularly see vehicles marked 'Docks Police' with unformed Officers in them, I do not know if they are accredited Constables or not, but they just drive slowly past,they never stop and ask. Perhaps someone could enlighten me as to the situation there.
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Colwyn - I believe the South Gare is private property - the very end that is fenced off belongs to the port authority, the police are probably keeping an eye on that. When I first went to the Gare you could access all areas, I sued to get tucked in the upper level by the lighthouse, was a great spot! :)
I've also been told that because the Gare is private, the whole road is closed for 1 day a year to keep it's private status. Fortunately I've never encountered that, would be really miffed after the journey from Hull to find out it was closed. ;D
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Colwyn,
In answer to your question, yes Tees and Hartlepool have an accredited Police Force, the link below will give you details as to what the Constables do. This is one of a small number of Port Police forces in the UK, most have contracted out to private security companies.
Hope this helps.
Andrew
http://www.pdports.co.uk/Documents/Careers/advert%20-%20Harbour%20Police%202012.pdf?epslanguage=en
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Whilst it is unclear if the fences in Goole are going to be spotter proof or not, I wouldn't be surprised if they were. ABP are one of the most negative organisations I've come across, and would rather spend large sums of money, time, and effort to prevent something happening, than to get a better return by being positive. This is a corporate philosophy that has gone on for years. When I worked for a major importer operating our own terminal in one of the Humber Ports, the first response to anything we proposed was No, even if it had mutual benefits. It's all about control to them, if we suggested something it was no, if they did, we had to jump...an we were the customer!!!!!! They recently spend millions on futile legal challenges to a facility the Able Uk wanted to build at Killingholme, when anyone with half a brain cell to see they were bound to fail, simply because they wanted to be able to control what Able did. If they had worked with Able, a win - win situation would have been there for both parties, but it would have meant loss of control.
A ABP staff member used to post photographs of shipping at Goole which he took during the course of his work on a Facebook forum, but has ceased doing this after he was told to stop and threatened with the sack if he did it again.
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Thanks for your comments Simon, I worked on Goole Docks ( some of those for ABP ) for 38 years and was able to take photos almost any where. When I first started on the Docks some of the areas had no fences or gates and almost anyone could access the quaysides all around Goole. In those days there was no threat of terrorists. But having said that we had a Dock Police presence, mainly to deter smoking in the Dock areas. I was never told by my employers not to take photos as there was no social media then ! In fact when I worked for PAL Line I was often asked to take photos to send off to Sweden. This was in the days before digital cameras, PCs and memory cards etc ! I take note of your comments on ABP too !!
Cheers and best wishes,
Bry.
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Interesting thread and also related to incidents at ABP Kings Lynn a few months back. To me its totally way over the top with the alleged fencing being erected at Goole to deter spotters/photographers.
What next some sort of special screen to be fitted to pleasure boat windows blocking out ships in port ? or maybe a camera jammer that disables all cameras within a 10 mile zone.
Ports and harbours SHOULD be embracing the spotters/enthusiasts as the unpaid security of the port, if they see any suspicious activity then its likely to have been photographed with the images being made readily available to security/police etc. Lets face it a spotter will know if something is not quite right even more so than joe public and I dare say even more than these pumped up security plebs who seem to don a hi viz and think they are mad max !!
I also held photo permits for all the Humber ports which like may were revoked In the wake of 9/11, I applied again post July 2004 but despite several letters back and forth they were not prepared to budge even when I pointed out that photographers/spotters would work with them and that it would simply end up with more unknown people simply taking photos through fences and lurking around perimeters but they threw the H&S card into the mix.
So in closing you are most likely to get aggro from sleepy Goole photographing small coasters but however Mr Terrorist can quite easily rock up at Immingham/Stallingboro and get access onto the foreshore where tankers can be seen a couple of hundred metres away, sling out a fishing rod and that will guarantee that you have no aggro whatsoever !!!!!
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Many years ago, two of my friends (sadly no longer with us) were on King George dock in Hull, with full permits and required PPE. The same morning a docker had sadly been killed, and in their travels around the dock they were stopped and enquired on what they were doing. They politely advised and showed relevant passes - to be told by the person, who was head of H&S that if he had his way the permits would be removed from everyone. At the end of 2003 all permits were not renewed, SPSS and H&S cited. We, like Darren, also tried the extra eyes potential to no avail - what was even stranger was for the last few years of permits we had had to produce proof of identity to gain the permits, so we were easily traceable and quite conspicuous with all the PPE required.