ShipSpotting.com Forum
Shipspotters all over the world => Shipping News and information => Topic started by: ChasB46 on January 18, 2013, 10:01:07 AM
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Minesweeper USS Guardian stuck on coral reef in Phillipines.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21072275
Environmental group Greenpeace was fined almost $7,000 (
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Chas,
Things don't seem to be getting any better.
A friend in the Philippines tells me that the Philippines Coastguard/ park rangers challenged the Guardian when she was headed for the reef, the response was to sound general quarters and threaten to "take action" if they didn't go away.
The Captain told the Filipinos to "take their complaint to the US Embassy" and refused them permission to board to inspect permits etc.
Then came the bump!
The US Navy have blamed a "faulty digital chart". And this is a mine hunting vessel stuffed full of sonar etc. Paper charts also apparently have big warnings. On January 19th the US Navy warned their ships to "operate with caution" when using digital charts and to always compare these with paper charts. (How about using the paper charts to begin with?).
Five days later, they said their digital charts are fine, with only 2 errors detected (the other is off the coast of Chile).
NOAA charts show quite clearly "0.5m to 1.5m of water over the reef at high tide".
http://www.panbo.com/assets_c/2013/01/NOAA_DNC_Tubbataha_Reefs_screenshot_cPanbo-6834.html
In this Youtube video, you can see the ship appears to be in around 1m of water, parts of the hull are shredded and even the propeller is totally banjaxed:
http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/video/149542/stateofthenation/pagsita-ng-park-rangers-sa-us-navy-sa-pagpasok-nito-sa-tubbataha-reef-nakunan-ng-video
Now, despite having a small fleet of ships on site, it seems the US Navy have given up on the ship and plans are being considered to break up the ship on site.
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The ship is not going to be broken up, Smit Salvage is going to lift it off the reef. The 1,000 mt cpacity sheerlegs "Smit Cyclone" and the Salvage vessel "Smit Borneo" with 500 ton capacity crane are on the way to the location now, will arrive about Jan 30th and lift the minesweeper off the reef and onto a barge or HLV for transport to the USA.
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Yes, Kelvin, an appalling incident. Incompetence exceeded only by arrogance.
http://tubbatahareef.org/news/622
http://rt.com/usa/news/us-navy-coral-reef-523/
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Now it looks like it will be lifted in pieces, damage is much worse than was reported, Smit is going to remove it in pieces now... my bet is in as big a "piece" or pieces as possible. I guess the little ship is not worth so much, being 25 years old and with a wooden hull.The concern is the reef of course. Those big cranes will be able to stay in deeper water and make lighter picks to remove it.
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She's going to be one big pile of very expensive scrap!!
They have taken the easy way out and will just cut her up
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2270395/U-S-Navy-hack-61million-minesweeper-ship-pieces-remove-sensitive-reef-near-Philippines.html
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Mike,
Pretty much what I reported 4 or 5 days ago.
If my experience (from decades ago on a Ton class minesweeper!) is anything to go by, it may be a bit more tricky than one may think. The first tricky bit is the hull. It is not merely a wooden hull; it is more of a fibre glass hull with a wooden cladding.
Next there is the degaussing cables. These are cables as thick as your forearm and very difficult to deal with. To get these out, we had to squeeze between the hull and the fuel tanks (which apparently leaked as we came out covered in the stuff!)
And all this in about 3 feet of water!
Kelvin
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Surely a wooden hull with fibreglass cladding?
Holedriller
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You are right.
I must have had my head on backwards!
Kelvin
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The previous point re wooden hull/fibre glass cladding may now be a moot point.
A photograph in the Philippines media shows the fibre glass cladding has been gradually stripped away, presumably by the weather, as salvage operations have still not yet started.
http://www8.gmanews.tv/webpics/v3/2013/02/640_ZZZ_020113_1_b.jpg
Now the Philippines Coast Guard has raised a question about Smit Borneo. Basically, they are saying "And where do you propose to anchor? We don't want even more damage done to the reef by the salvage vessels".
The salvage team last night offered to anchor the crane ships up to 1 Kilometre away, presumably in the very deep water (2,500 feet) on the reef edge.
Filipino fishermen are now asking why the Filipino government promised to bring charges against those responsible, yet allowed them all to fly back to their home port in Japan.
Kelvin
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Some expensive short-cut! No doubt to be deducted from salaries and pensions of those found to be culpable.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Smit Salvage, Singapore, was awarded on Feb. 1, 2013, a $24,889,904 delivery order against previously awarded indefinite-delivery/indefinite-quantity, cost-plus-award-fee contract (N00024-12-D-4120) to provide support for emergency response and recovery operations for the USS Guardian (MCM 5) grounding on Tubbataha Reef, Sulu Sea, Philippines.
[Marine Log] Full article at http://www.marinelog.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3567:smit-awarded-249-million-for-work-on-grounded-minesweeper&catid=1:latest-news&Itemid=195
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It is really strange the way the fibreglass layer appears to be peeling off the wood, if that is what is happening. The wood appears to be hardwood, with strips laid in a diagonal direction, like the old Fairmile and Fairy WW2 hulls. I guess there is another layer going the other way underneath. Why is it peeling off? Is the hull twisting and breaking the bond!
Holedriller
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From what i have read the hull is twisting from the wave action. The latest is they will have to wait until the other crane barge arrives 15 Feb. The weather is playing a nasty role in this scrapping.
NOTE: The charts the ship was using were digital and the question is whether or not they received the updated chart or were aware to replace the existing one. The maker of those digital charts and the USN were aware of the deficiencies in the old chart of the area.
In any case the Co and Navigation Officer are on the hot seat!
Regards
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Re: Paper charts versa Electronic charts (ECDIS)
ECDIS is proven a big accident creator, not only because that they are often incorrect
but also for the fact that they were initial pushed more or less unregulated onto ships.
As usually that happened because when groundings/collisons etc occured the look out was just making coffee and the OOW was just on the toilet, in reality they were because of minimum crews aboard fatigue and tired and fell asleep. Then more electronic came (as usual, more electronic, more safe,,also when the opposite is the fact) in the form of ECDIS and crew had to deal with them untrained. To make it worst, the IMO members
and the manufacturers could not settle on one system. so from ship to ship and company to company everything was different. Even today, OOW,s have to be trained TYPE specific !!!
If they get trained at all.
As for replacing the ECDIS with paper charts,,that,s exactly what ECDIS did replacing the paper charts !!!! All paper charts will be gone by about 2020. Then they will be also not there anymore as back up !!!!
By then I am retired,,THANKS GOD !!!!!
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Re: Paper charts versa Electronic charts (ECDIS)
ECDIS is proven a big accident creator, not only because that they are often incorrect
but also for the fact that they were initial pushed more or less unregulated onto ships.
As usually that happened because when groundings/collisons etc occured the look out was just making coffee and the OOW was just on the toilet, in reality they were because of minimum crews aboard fatigue and tired and fell asleep. Then more electronic came (as usual, more electronic, more safe,,also when the opposite is the fact) in the form of ECDIS and crew had to deal with them untrained. To make it worst, the IMO members
and the manufacturers could not settle on one system. so from ship to ship and company to company everything was different. Even today, OOW,s have to be trained TYPE specific !!!
If they get trained at all.
As for replacing the ECDIS with paper charts,,that,s exactly what ECDIS did replacing the paper charts !!!! All paper charts will be gone by about 2020. Then they will be also not there anymore as back up !!!!
By then I am retired,,THANKS GOD !!!!!
Captain Ted,
mostly right. But even the most experienced and well-trained navigator can make a mistake when forced to handle to much information at the same time or make decisions with insufficient informations. Another high risk of ECDIS is that the operator can overlay information on ECDIS, but can also overlay information on the radar. There are some more significant weak points of ECDIS. But thats another story.
Adapted from an American Marine Incident Investigation:
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I don't think either of the above 2 posts are really relevant.
Although they blamed the electronic charts initially, the US Navy has since blamed "bad weather, wind and waves". Well, who would have expected waves? At sea?
But, charts or no charts, they compounded the error by telling the Philippines park authorities to direct their complaints to the US Embassy when they were warned (repeatedly) of their impending demise.
Kelvin
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Couldn't agree more with N3lson and Capt Ted on the broader question od ECDIS. But to get back to the case in hand, to me it is a different issue. I find it hard to believe that any digital chart likely to have been used by this ship did not show these world-famous reefs in a broadly correct location. What's the point of passage planning if the course chosen intentionally takes one unnecessarily close to (or across) a known major hazard. Not only that, into a sea area which has had a special protected status for years, where permits are required to enter. Or does that not appear on charts either?
All this talk about whether the electronic charts were the latest version or not looks like a weak attempt to shift the responsibility away from those who decided to go there in the first place.
David
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@ N3lsoN
Yes, I agree with you on that, some areas will have may be longer times use for paper charts. But in general they will be abolished, once all ships have double ECDIS systems
and so on. That in some instances some will still have to rely on paper charts,, sure thing !!!!
We have now on my ship rough 1500 paper charts,,they will be gone then. As for the others, we will see. Of course it,s always the action to apply the knowledge the OOW,s have.
When I tell my young officers,,Man,,look out of the window,,they look at me like I live on another planet. Navigation is today purly done (99%) by ECDIS. Even charting a position into the paper chart on approaches to ports, If you don,t tell them, they will not do it.
The wrong interpretation and the faulty ECDIS maps is another story. In the beginning the ECDIS was hailed as the" super never a accident again " thing. Then the rude awakening came. Now it takes 5-10 years to train them. While Europeans/americans etc going nice back to school, making new ARPA/ECDIS etc etc,,90% of officers coming back from their home countires with colorfull certifications and when you ask them where they made them,, it,s on a high school,,very high on a mountain !!!