ShipSpotting.com Forum
Shipspotters all over the world => Shipping News and information => Topic started by: michael-taal on December 05, 2012, 07:38:13 PM
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A carrier Baltic Ace is sinking on the North sea after an accident with the Coral J (probably the Coral J is the Corvus J). The accident happened 100KM away from Rotterdam.
the coastguard has setup an big rescue operation. It isnt sure if there are people in danger. (both ships dont have AIS anymore)
the sinking vessel is a car carrier that is sailing under the flag of the Bahama's. at around 19.15 hour (dutch time) a containervessel from Cyprus collided with the car carrier.
A helicopter and 7 rescue vessels are underway at this moment 4 ship are at the scene (Corvus J,Panagia,Caroline Essberger and the Kamarno) the 7 ships that are underway are the Friesland,Groningen (both dutch navy),koopmansdank,Zeemandhoop,Antoinette (both 3 KNRM),Menkar (pilot),Grande America.
http://marinetraffic.com/ais/shipdetails.aspx?MMSI=209883000
http://marinetraffic.com/ais/shipdetails.aspx?MMSI=309474000
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hello / goedenavond
sad news , on the sinking ship ( baltic ace ) 23 people are on board.
the corvus J is back on ais
the ferry Bride of Brugge is also setting course to the baltic ace , maybe he gonna help to
met vriendelijke groet / nice greetings
matthijs
Attached : the resque scene 20.50 local time
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How deep is the water around there? Any chance we're getting a new Tricolor?
edit: Those car carriers are pretty bad when it comes to damage stability - high COG and large car decks are a bad combination. In our ship project, many allnighters were wasted on intact and damage stability issues. Also, a number of recent ships have no double sides of any kind, making the ships susceptible to dangerous flooding even in minor "fender benders". I wonder if Baltic Ace was one of those?
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the car carrier has sunk there werew 24 people onboard, helicopters has hoised some people out of there rafts
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hallo ,
the water depth is between 20 en 27 meter's in his position.
the swell is around 2.70 meters ( goeree platform ) , lifeboats zeemanshoop and koopmansbank do only around 12 knots. antoinette sar is al ready at scene
mvg,
matthijs
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the water depth is between 20 en 27 meter's in his position
So, we're getting another Tricolor.
http://antipodeanmariner.blogspot.fi/2012/01/wreck-removal.html (http://antipodeanmariner.blogspot.fi/2012/01/wreck-removal.html)
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I hope not but it look like that will happen.
the first helicopter has arrived at Rotterdam-The Haque airport a lot of ambulances from Rotterdam and The Haque are heading to the airport.
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hello,
the baltic is as good as sunken, that reported the dutch new paper (www.telegraaf.nl and news site nu.nl)a few minutes ago
mvg,
matthijs
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a dornier 228 from the dutch coast guard has left Schiphol heading to the scene
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helle ,
is heard and say also a resque helicopter flying above my house , probely heading back from rotterdam airport ( where it brings survivors) to the scene.
i live near the new waterway , maassluis
mvg,
matthijs
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The staffehendrik (Belgium lifeguard) is now also underway to the scene the Dornier has an expected arrival at 22:08 hour
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I live in Scheveningen so I probably hear the Dornier coming over
at this moment 10 of 24 people are rescued
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hello
nu.nl reported
13 of 24 persons are saved
mvg,
matthijs
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Lets hope the rescue them all,, but I am afraid we will have some sad news on that !!!
gets me always as Captain myself.
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Her cargo was (apparently) rather expensive:
8 Bentley's, 6 Rolls Roys Dropheads, 4 Lamborghini Aventadors and 12 Ferrari's...
Lets hope they rescue all 24 crew members!
Also, you can listen to the KNRM "live" radio stream here : http://knrmterheijde.nl/index.php/scanner-2
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I saw it very expensive cares especially the lamborghinis but still 11 crew members are lost
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According to AIS, the following vessels are in attendance:
- PANAGIA
- KOMARNO
- GRANDE AMERICA
- KOOPMANSDANK
- MENKAR
- GRONINGEN
- OD-6
- CAROLINE ESSBERGER
- ANTOINETTE SAR
- FRIESLAND
The ZEEMANSHOOP (S&R) and WIELINGEN (PILOT) are closing on the scene with the tug ZEEHOND inbound with an ETA of roughly 1-5 minutes
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I wonder if there's already someone dialing the Smit hotline...
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Heh... and the incident already has a Wikipedia page dedicated to it!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltic_Ace
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Corvus J is reported to be badly damaged.
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Corvus J is reported to be badly damaged.
the coast guard said it hasnt got any bad damage, there is a 4th heli coming from Leeuwarden.
3 sailors past away 6 still missing 7 did go to Belgium 4 to Rotterdam
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Ah that's some good news at least. Terrible about the loss of life. Corvus J should make it to Antwerp.
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any info about reason of collision ? looks like container vsl had car carrier on her stb side.
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any information on the nationalities of those onboard the baltic ace?
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Corvus J presently en route, approaching NE Akkaert bouy, AIS gives Antwerp as destination but maybe she's going to Zeebrugge.
Still searching; Multratug 4, Marc-Andre, Happy Harrier, maybe Monsoon also.
At present 13 crewmembers were saved, 4 members found but deceased and 7 still missing.
Searching was stopped because of the weather conditions and visibility.
This morning it is decided wether the search goes on.
Very sad, my thoughts are with the relatives of the crew that passed away or are still missing.
Leon
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Heh... and the incident already has a Wikipedia page dedicated to it!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltic_Ace
Why wouldn't it have? It took me ten or so minutes to fill in the infobox from DNV Exchange and write a short description of the accident based on Reuters and BBC news articles. After I went to bed, other editors continued the work and by morning there were articles of the accident also in German, Dutch and Russian.
Remigiusz, if that's true, then it's quite a surprising accident. It's obvious that if a car carrier is the one being hit, it has very poor changes of surviving since the side structures cannot absorb enough energy to stop the colliding vessel before it penetrates the double side (if the ship had any!), but the collision bulkhead etc. in the bow should prevent the ship from sinking if it hits something.
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None of accidents is surprising. It's almost always human error. You couldn't believe what some of "educated and experienced" seamen do at sea... Some people don't know the COLREG or don't care about them and then it happens.
I don't know what was the reason here and I think that for official info we need to wait for final report. Off course if container vsl struck car carrier in side then it was easy to sink. Vessels are strong in fwd part, not in side.
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VIDEO from the collision of Baltic Ace and Corvus J
AIS Historical Data
http://www.vesselfinder.com/news/742-EXCLUSIVE-VIDEO-The-collision-between-BALTIC-ACE-and-CORVUS-J-AIS-Historical-Data
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I see lots of people are lokking for info about reason of collision,i yust hope they find all the missing crew members,before pointing fingers on somone.
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5th body found 6 still missing (probably all dead by now, because the cold water and weather).
the KNRM lifeboats from Hook of Holland and Scheveningen are now also on the scene, just like the coast guard vessel Arca (also from Scheveningen)
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I think it is a great call Tore :) I think we should focus on the pure peoble were have loset ther fameliy members and freinds !!!!
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any information on the nationalities of those onboard the baltic ace?
Polish (11 persons: Master, Officers and Cook. 2 Dead, 3 missed, 6 rescued), Ukrainian, Bulgarian and Filipino.
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News video report on a belgiun news site..
http://www.deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws/buitenland/121206_baltic_ace_zinken
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Although I agree that we shouldn't start pointing fingers and blaming people while they are still searching for possible survivors, there's no reason to curtail discussion about the potential causes of the incident, be it technical or human error, or ways to prevent such accidents from happening again.
Does anyone have Significant Ships of 2005 at hand? The sister ship of Baltic Ace, Elbe Highway, has been presented in that volume. Any chance of checking out if the ship had side tanks below the main deck?
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FIVE crewmen were killed and six are missing after two vessels collided in the North Sea off Rotterdam.
Car carrier Baltic Ace was travelling from Zeebrugge, Belgium to Kotka in Finland when it was involved in the 5 December collision with German container ship Corvus J, which was en route to Antwerp from Grangemouth, Scotland.
Dutch coastguards launched a rescue mission and saved 13 seafarers from Baltic Ace, which sank about 70nm west of Rotterdam. Five bodies were also recovered but six other crew members are missing, feared drowned.
Sea conditions were severe at the time, with waters were near freezing. The rough weather also hampered the rescue mission, Netherlands coastguards spokesman Peter Verburg told the BBC.
The search involved three coastguard boats, two navy vessels, four rescue helicopters and a coastguard aircraft, Royal Dutch Sea Rescue Organisation spokesman Peter Westenberg told the BBC.
Chances of surviving in such conditions were
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Sister ship is Nordic Ace , I was looking at her last night when I got a call from Dianne who runs the Mission to Seafarers at South Shields , this vessel was here 3 times last month and used to call on average every 8 days . I am a ship visitor volunteer and we rreat these guys as good friends , such a tragic accident .
Visit our facebook page search " South Shields Seafarers Centre " There are some photos of the guys on there , dont know who is missing though !!!
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https://www.facebook.com/SouthShieldsSeafarersCentre
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the Coast Guard has stopped searching for survivors reason: they think nobody will be a life right now in the water and it is dark now
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http://www.knrm.nl/service/reddingrapporten/?contentID=6AADAFB4#.UMDSuIwuNq8.facebook
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re: someone mentioned COLREGS
when I catched a 2.Mate some years back in the english channel (wepassed the greenwich buoy already, East bound, with a port maneuvre ( it is clearly said in the COLREGS that one should not change course towards a vessel on the port bow ), {think it is reg 17 d, not sure on that}
and I questioned the Mate why he did that, the only answer I got,, It was better !!!!
When I corned him about the COLREG, he could not really answer, so I aksed randomly a few
questions which all of them he could not answer. then he said and I quote, which I will never forget !!!!
" I did not involve myself with that book too much yet " . I made a report to the managing company by e-mail, asking them if I should fire him now on the spot, or set him on the next buoy we pass , for that answer I still waiting today.
I,ts almost always human errors and as long 10% of the seaman of the worlds fleet go back to school when new regs / technics are invented (ECDIS comes to mind,,the biggest accident creator ever)and get updated certs or new,,the rest 90% comes aboard with nice, colorfull certs and when you ask what school they went for that,, it is a high school,,very high on a mountain,, the rest you think......
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This is the third time in the past 3 years that a relatively large vessel was hit head on by a short seatrade container feeder. After being hit by "Nirint Pride" the "MSC Nikita" almost sank in August 2009. The "CMA CGM Alaska was hit below the waterline by the "Pantonio" in Oct. 2011 and had to return to port. And now this catastrophic event. Maybe the IMO or ITF should look into the perils of the short sea trade, because neither the Dutch authorities, nor the respective flagstates seem interested or able to investigate this phenomenon in depth.
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Hi Robert.
I think that she was single hull,that's why she sank so fast.
The CMA CGM Alaska was double hull.and she was lucky that the Pantonio not sail so fast.
Just look at this picture.
ShipSpotting.com (http://www.shipspotting.com/)
(http://cdn2.shipspotting.com/photos/small/8/5/2/1665258.jpg) (http://www.shipspotting.com/gallery/photo.php?lid=1665258)
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Also, a number of recent ships have no double sides of any kind, making the ships susceptible to dangerous flooding even in minor "fender benders". I wonder if Baltic Ace was one of those?
Baltic Ace has had double sides in way from double bottom up to the level of main deck (which is also a external ramps level deck)
Baltic Ace had three decks (cargo space levels, including the one immediately above the inner bottom) below the main deck
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Baltic Ace has had double sides in way from double bottom up to the level of main deck (which is also a external ramps level deck)
Baltic Ace had three decks (cargo space levels, including the one immediately above the inner bottom) below the main deck
Thank you for the information.
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Found this one on Facebook
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At the time I took pictures of the CMA CGM Alsska myself and noted the double hull. But that's not my point. Overworked, underpaid and sometimes unqualified mariners navigate short sea vessels often flying foc in the world's busiest waters and nobody addresses that issue. The Dutch "KLPD" boarded the "Corvus J." at Flushing roads today. They were met on board by a lawyer; no statements were made by captain or crew. After 2 hours the "investigation" was considered closed. A spokesman said that the Dutch have no jurisdiction because a) the accident happened in int'l waters and b) it is up to the flagstates to take action. Now compare this lacklustre performance to an airplane crash. Meanwhile another 11 mariners lost their lives.....
Brgds,
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Robert
good point
but one thing is good and smart
1) no statement
the reason why I say that is look around the world, the moment an accident happens they jail the Capt.
If I ever have something like that,,all what they here from me,,name/rank and I want a lawyer!!!!,,, like a prisoner of war,,what virtually Capt,s become in such cases,, Look now the issue in spain with the capt of the Erika,,the spanish gov denied a ship help and they blame the Capt,,
The whole European coast is full of countries where totally incompetent authorities run the show with no resposibilties whatsoever (max what can happen to them getting transfered)
while the Master of a ship goes to jail or at least gets detained in the country where it happened. Seen from that point,, whoever is at fault can be glad that it happened in international waters because at least they can,t jail him ,,at least for now !!!
The maritime business,,special after accidents happen is a FARCE and all what the public wants is a GUILTY and the media the same,,,
Something will happen one day,,but we are years off from solving these matters,,,as long as sailors are automatic criminials when something goes wrong nobody has to wonder then when they lawer up the moment something goes wrong
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Not get rid of sailors ...But get rid of low payment and pure education !!!! >:(
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Hi Capt Ted,as a matter of information the trial of the PRESTIGE case(not the ERIKA,it was in France)is taking place now ,after 10 years of the accident
brgds
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further to video that emerged...
I. what I found elsewhere:
CAPT. D. Peter Boucher, MN(Ret.) says:
December 6, 2012 at 3:55 pm
The video shows both ship tracks until about 0.20 secs. then it jumps forward to apparently after the impact took place. The Corvus J is shown as a southerly bound vessel which alters her course to her starboard (right) in compliance with Rule 15 of the Nautical Rules of the Road. There is then the jump at 0.20 secs and the northerly bound Baltic Ace is shown pointing NW (approx.) indicating that she could have altered course to her port (left) in a clear violation of the Nautical Rules of the Road. It is also reported that the Corfus J had severe bow damage which could be a further indication of the two ships relative position at impact. We shall have to wait until a complete AIS video is made available and/or the European Union Marine Accident Investigators complete their inquiries.
Good Watch.
II. my opinion expressed earlier (before I found the above):
judging from:
1. this "video" (I would think it should be interpreted in another way comparing to how it is explained by "Maritime Bulletin" / Odin website)
and
2. the fact that Corvus J has had its bow bulb twisted TO THE RIGHT
... I would think that:
1. Corvus J MADE a proper turn (to right) to avoid collision
2. Baltic Ace MADE a turn as well (to the left), while she should continue to proceed on its previous coyurse
the above resulted with the fact that Baltic Ace gave its STARBOARD side to be hit
(instead of PORT - what we would expect, judging from the initial courses of both ships)
Corvus J bulb is twisted to the RIGHT because the hit Baltic Ace's side was moving (in relation to Corvus J bow) to the right while being hit
if we assume that Baltic Ace was moving forward (not backwards) then the above means (most probably) that BALTIC Ace was hit in its RIGHT (starboard) side, while turning hard to port during last minutes or seconds before collision
IF the vehicle carrier would have been hit in its PORT side, then the containership's bulb would (most probably) have to be twisted to the LEFT
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nobody has to give testimonial against onesself. It is a right to remain silent and very wise to do so, facing any kind of legal investigation.
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Victor
you are right
I mixed the ships names, I meant the Prestige
guess a alzheimer moment :-)
thanks for pointing out
brgds
capt ted
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No AIS signal from Corvus J. Is she still anchored off Vlissingen?
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According to marine traffic she is still at anchor.
Regards,
Dan.
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some pics from the damaged Corvus-J seen at Vlissingen from the KNRM vessel from Breskens
(http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb426/michael-taal/knrm_breskens_2012-12-06_-_1_corvus_j.jpg)
(http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb426/michael-taal/knrm_breskens_2012-12-06_-_2_corvus_j.jpg)
(http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb426/michael-taal/knrm_breskens_2012-12-06_-_3_corvus_j.jpg)
(http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb426/michael-taal/knrm_breskens_2012-12-06_-_4_corvus_j.jpg)
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She will need a new bulbous bow. Obviously a job for Damen Repair Schiedham
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Quote
The whole European coast is full of countries where totally incompetent authorities run the show with no resposibilties whatsoever
Unquote
Hey Teddy, you are so boooooring.
Have fun
Fred
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Just a thought, i see what happened on AIS, and yes it is a sad tragic loss of life again. But instead of playing the blame game, just think what is going on in the minds of the people that created this incident. And just consider that they will have to live with it for the rest of their lives.
These incidents take place nearly every night in congested waterways. Mistakes should not be made if people observed the Colregs correctly.
Thank You.
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Hey Fred
at least we are then in the same league !!!
when you work a while in my profession you may come to the same conclusion.
But generally all over,, oil spill in the Gulf comes to mind,, 5-6 agencies involved and recently came a report how they hindered each other instead of helping. So it is not
only EU,, I said it because of recent accident which happen there.
That you don,t agree with me is nothing new, since I put my stand out to shoot pirates instead of pampering them :-))
so relax,,you have your opinion and I mine.
brgds
capt ted
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Ronald
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<,,,
These incidents take place nearly every night in congested waterways. Mistakes should not be made if people observed the Colregs correctly
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totally in agreement with you, beside "following the COLREGS correctly" . With not only traffic increased over the years, it is also the speed, years back 12-14kn vessels were considered quick,,now most big boxers going easy 25 kn and feeders also in the range of 18-20 kn . One misjudgement and the accident is there. Nobody likes it but it is reality. The other big factor is the time (ETA,s !!) Boxers are often on sheduled berthing slots and if they miss that slot, the ship waits
hours and then the blame game starts there between charterer/ship/terminals. This makes some peoples taking short cuts, not only by distance but also by narrow down the safe passing distances or overtaking in 1 cable instead of 2-3 or more etc etc.
It is all one big circle which on the end comes down to money overrules safety.
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Couldn't agree more Ted, one wonders just what it will take before somebody decides to sit back and say Hey, there is something wrong here! Money rules period, standards of training, the lot.
I have spoken with a superintendent or 2 who have freely admitted they can support a couple of reasonable accidents a year and continue to employ cheap poor quality labour to man the ships. As for hours of rest, they are a joke. I was on ships where it became necessary to work ridiculous hours and fight with captains to recognise them. Even PSC was satisfied with flimsy excuses from Captains regarding excessive hours and ignore them after initially picking up on them. Needless to say I no longer work for that particular company. I could go on!
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Here's the cross section of Baltic Ace's identical sister ship Elbe Highway from Significant Ships 2005. With 1,300 mm double sides and non-watertight lower cargo deck, it's no wonder the ship sank in 15 minutes. The bulbous bow of Corvus J penetrated to the cargo space, quickly flooding the lower decks and likely capsizing the vessel.
(http://users.tkk.fi/tromu/forum/balticace.png)
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Does anyone know if Corvus J is still anchored in Flushing Roads? When will she be allowed to berth at Anwerp?
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She's is still anchored in Flushing Roads.
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Thanks for the info. Any news when Corvus J will be allowed to leave Flushing Roads? Where will she go once she does?
Cetus J is deputising for Corvus J on her North Sea schedule.