ShipSpotting.com Forum
Shipspotters all over the world => Shipping News and information => Topic started by: ChasB46 on February 03, 2012, 03:31:09 PM
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Is Liverpool closer to becoming a cruise turnaround port? The up to
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Chas,
Short answer; Yes! Even the (expletive deleted) in charge of Southampton council says he is "content".
I do think it is about time Peel Holdings put their hands in their pockets though.
My Dad took a cruise once that began in Liverpool.
That was on the Reina Del Pacifico in October/November 1942!
Kelvin
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Hi Kelvin, as I know you are aware Southampton City is shooting itself through the foot as it takes a cruise passenger as long to get through Southampton road system into docks to terminals as it does to drive from Birmingham to Southampton. Liverpool could only benefit from this Southampton chaos of getting to the terminals past the "jobsworths" at the gates.
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Forgot to add the game of count the traffic lights you need to cross in Southampton.
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We have 16 individual cruise ships due into the Tyne between April and October plus many also doing multiple trips making 38 in all.
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Lets hope they rub Southampton's face in it!
Remember you can jump a Pendalino at Euston and be in Liverpool in not much more time than it takes to get to Southampton. A 5 min cab ride from Lime St and hey presto.
Also on Liverpool's doorstep is a huge market largely unexploited by the cruise industry.
With a passage time to a first port of call in Portugal say, what, half a day more than from Southampton? And with a slick boarding process, they could soon make the money they're being forced to shell out back!
Good luck to them.
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I understand that many of the present cruise lines using Southampton have 20 year or so contracts so Liverpool may have to attract new ships rather than divert Southampton's.
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Lets hope they rub Southampton's face in it!
Steady on! :o Well, as someone who lives fairly close to Southampton, I don't!
Who says that Liverpool will (or can) take business away from Southampton? I would think that the smaller ports such as the Tyne would suffer more. The unseemly row between Southampton and Liverpool has got out of hand stoked, it is probably fair to say, by the local media.
ChasB46 - To say that getting into the city and to where the ships are takes as long as getting from Birmingham to Southampton is stretching it a bit. It's not *quite* that bad, certainly outside of the rush hours, but I agree that there are ridiculous amounts of traffic lights through the city (am I right in thinking it's the most traffic light-infested city in the country, if not Europe?) and watch out for the speed cameras on the way in - don't ever be in a hurry to catch a cruise ship or ferry if you're held up by those lights! My mum got done for speeding through Southampton on her way to catch a Red Funnel ferry back to the Isle of Wight, a few years ago, and I have missed ferries myself. Not condoning my mum's speeding, I hasten to add! ;) :-X
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Lets hope they rub Southampton's face in it!
Steady on! :o Well, as someone who lives fairly close to Southampton, I don't!
Sorry! :-[ Got a bit carried away - but Liverpool deserves a break.
It's a bit like a re-run of the 1910s/20s when Southampton stole/attracted Liverpool's transatlantic trade with White Star first then Cunard moving their express runs there.
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hello davaar,
Why the hell does Liverpool need break?
I was under the impression Scousers normally take what they want anyway. Cruise ships hang on to your anchors and lifeboats !!
Allan
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hello davaar,
Why the hell does Liverpool need break?
I was under the impression Scousers normally take what they want anyway. Cruise ships hang on to your anchors and lifeboats !!
Allan
Hi Allan
I have to state first of all I'am not a Scouser, however Liverpool is one of my favourite English cities.
I think any reasonable person would have to accept the bias in infrastructure spending between London/Southern England and those points north, this is most obvious in the field of public transport.
10s of
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Well said Davaar!
As for Dr Onions; well, he is nowadays a southern softy but has roots "up north"!
Mind you, it needs a length of electric flex and a strong arm to get him to admit it!
Never mind, I shall catch up with him next time I am home and we meet at Calshot.
I shall steal his car! Just so he can say "Told you so!".
Look out, Allan!
Kelvin (a Wirral exile)
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hello davaar,
Why the hell does Liverpool need break?
I was under the impression Scousers normally take what they want anyway. Cruise ships hang on to your anchors and lifeboats !!
Allan
Hi Doctor of whatever,
All we need is a level playing field and an end to outdated smart botty remarks such as yours; should you continue in this vain, I feel that you will find your onions being fried to a deep golden brown and served with a juicy fillet steak, mmmmm.
With absolutely no regards whatsoever,
Scouse.
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Well Jon
Talking of level playing fields......Southampton developed its cruise terminals with its own money and did not need to go cap in hand begging for loans to the Government and EU. So I suggest level playing fields are something you should perhaps research more fully before making any further ccomments. It's a totally different thing to receive a subsidy to build a terminal, then ask for a change of use, and then say we'll pay back the subsidy from our new found profits. If that constitutes a level playing field then the rules must have changed somewhat.
Or is this another example of the famed Scouse sense of humour. Oh, and will the fillet steak be knock-off as well ??
Allan
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Kelvin,
et tu Brute.......
I really must buy myself a set of wheel clamps before I venture down the A326 again
Allan
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A car AND a set of new wheel clamps! Bargain!
What the other guys are saying is true though Allan. Remember the Thatcher was keen on depriving Liverpool of everything and stated she would be happy to see the city just wither away and die. Thank God Heseltine was in her cabinet; he is the only Tory that gets any respect throughout the city.
I don't believe Liverpool will be paying the cash back through profits. It comes out of the council's budget and I suppose they hope they will gradually recoup the cash through local business rates.
As far as I know, Southampton have never done anything to assist the cruise industry, other than a fair amount of flag waving etc. The money comes, ultimately, from the cruise lines and I think Liverpool should push them and Peel Holdings in particular for their contributions.
Still, regardless of where the money comes from, if it benefits Liverpool as a whole, I am all for it. Southampton's collective whining is a proper dog in the manger reaction. One day, they may discover they could have both prospered if they had decided to work with, rather than against Liverpool.
Now; must get a trailer sorted so I can get the car and clamps on together!
Cheers
Kelvin
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hello davaar,
Why the hell does Liverpool need break?
I was under the impression Scousers normally take what they want anyway. Cruise ships hang on to your anchors and lifeboats !!
Allan
Why this sort of childish attack on folk from Liverpool Dr Onions, it does you and this site no credit at all, but what it does show is your complete ignorance of the very people you are trying to tarnish. But I suppose every dog knows his own trick best ah Dr Onions.
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Hi Maritime Phot
Don't worry about me....the skin is too old and thick to suffer. Kelvin is an old mate. The comments are more in jest than anything more serious.....don't worry. Now where can I buy those wheel clamps ?
Allan
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Lovely as Liddypool people are, I can't imagine why anyone would want to go there on a cruise.
And knowing how much cruise companies charge for their excursions, it must cost visiting cruise passengers a small fortune to visit Britain's capital from So'ton and Dover. London should be the British cruise hub, not these little, out-of-the-way places. Ken Smith would like that: and so wold I and so would the rest of the Gravesend Mafia. It would be much more interesting than just MARCO POLO and the few odd visitors we get now.
Now, lest I be misunderstood and accused of racism, I think Scousers, 'ampshire 'ogs and Doverian Men (and Maids) of Kent are all very nice people but they are just not in the best places for cruise ships to operate to.
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Lets hope they rub Southampton's face in it!
Steady on! :o Well, as someone who lives fairly close to Southampton, I don't!
Sorry! :-[ Got a bit carried away - but Liverpool deserves a break.
It's a bit like a re-run of the 1910s/20s when Southampton stole/attracted Liverpool's transatlantic trade with White Star first then Cunard moving their express runs there.
Easily done (getting carried away that is. It's an emotive subject - which is clear when you read the p***ing contests and outright trolling between north and south on the Southampton Echo website).
Southampton didn't 'steal' Liverpool's trade, the lines moved south because of more favourable tides and conditions, etc. 'Attracted' definitely, 'stole', no.
If Liverpool repays all the tax money - including the EU payment - and builds a terminal with their own money or money from private enterprise then good luck to them. Obviously as a southerner, I don't want this to be at Southampton's expense but, that said, bit of competition might turn out to be healthy, rather than unhealthy. I hope so. I do wish the unseemly Southampton v Liverpool sniping would stop though, it does no one any favours.
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Hi Bob
I'm sure you must have difficulty talking at the moment with you tongue so firmly stuck in your cheek. If they knocked the Tilbury Passenger Terminal down and built a slum it would be an improvement !! And what's wrong with the Marco Polo ? Send her down to the Solent, at least she looks a little like a ship should.
Allan - an honorary 'ampshire 'og - by migration rather than birth I must add.
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Sorry Bob, but you missed the point. Passengers don't go to a hub port for excursions, it's where they begin and end. The most important requirement for a hub port is land-side access for customers (and they may be flying in, or otherwise - road & train - if the cruise is targeted primarily at the domestic market) and crew. Then important other features will be attractive terminals (the first encounter with passengers is onshore), berthing availability and facilities for stores etc, technical infrastructure (getting things fixed between occupancy), and no doubt other things that don't come to mind.
Its wayport calls where excursions drive the required facilities.
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Faith; a good comment but don't you get fed up with the same old blocks of flats passing the island? There are times during the height of the season when the cruise ship schedule starts to look like a bus service!
As Allan mentioned, wouldn't it be nice to see something different?
Bob; Leave it out (to use a typical Gravesend phrase)! When was the last time you actually visited Liverpool? For a cruise ship to drop people off for a sight-seeing trip to London, surely there would be a rather long road or rail trip to the city?
At Liverpool, you get off the ship and walk up the road. There it is! Or, if you are as lazy as me, take a bus the half mile up the road to where it all begins. (Missing out, I admit, the exotic locations of Dagenham, Bromley etc).
As for Gravesend, I spent many a happy month there, in the Three Daws (or Three Crows as we knew it) and it seemed back then (early 70s) the only traffic that used to pass was the Everard tankers with decks awash.
PS Allan is not a bad bloke really; just a little 'controversial' at times! OK, he is a Wolves supporter but don't hold that against him!
Kelvin
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Kelvin: I last visited Liverpool about 15 years ago. I've managed to avoid it since. I meant passengers going to London from Dover and So'ton, not Liverpool. Why do you pick on Bromley? Did you lose your way going to London last time and find yourself there? And I think Dagenham's not a bad place. Especially as I pass through it at 140 mph on a Javelin high-speed train from Gravesend to London. The Three Daws is still going strong. I guess you must have had your face stuck in your pint too much to notice the ships other than Everard's passing.
Allan: my tongue is still stuck there. I thought there already was a slum at Tilbury. Get your greedy little eyes off MARCO POLO! It is almost all we've got left.
I, too, know what it is to be an immigrant in a foreign land. I don't know about honorary but have become a Gravesendite and a (north of the Medway) Kentish Man. I did live in Chatham as a Man of Kent for a while.
I have been compared by the locals to a haemorrhoid, in that I came down (from Scotland) and didn't go back up; thus becoming a right PITA.
Kelvin referring to you as controversial, Allan, does get me thinking about kettles, pots and the colour black. Wolves? Is that them big doggy things? I've always been a wife and two kids supporter myself.
Finally - David, I didn't miss the point because there wasn't any!
Have a nice day, friends, and keep out of the midday sun, Kelvin.
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Lets hope they rub Southampton's face in it!
Steady on! :o Well, as someone who lives fairly close to Southampton, I don't!
Sorry! :-[ Got a bit carried away - but Liverpool deserves a break.
It's a bit like a re-run of the 1910s/20s when Southampton stole/attracted Liverpool's transatlantic trade with White Star first then Cunard moving their express runs there.
Easily done (getting carried away that is. It's an emotive subject - which is clear when you read the p***ing contests and outright trolling between north and south on the Southampton Echo website).
Southampton didn't 'steal' Liverpool's trade, the lines moved south because of more favourable tides and conditions, etc. 'Attracted' definitely, 'stole', no.
Which is why I gave the choice between 'stole' and 'attracted'.
You're right there were compelling reasons for the move to Southampton, probably more to do with economics than practical reasons.
Starting from the south meant exploiting the 1st class French/continental traffic via a call at Cherbourg and also countering the threat of the big new German boats creaming off some of the British traffic when they called at an English port on their way past.
The emigrant trade at this time was vast and hugely profitable with huge numbers of europeans heading to the USA, it was easier to tap into this from a base in the south than Liverpool.
Back to today I would imagine that the huge hinterland with easy access to Liverpool could easily supply enough punters for a weekly run to the Canaries/Portugal/Spain by a medium sized "block of flats" April-October, this would be the basis of the business.
As to incoming visits you step off the boat and you're in European class galleries and museums (the maritime museum is one of the best I've been in) - not to mention the Beatles connection, and within an easy day coach excursion you have Chester, Manchester and umpteen major 'heritage' sites. More than enough for a day visit.
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Faith; a good comment but don't you get fed up with the same old blocks of flats passing the island? There are times during the height of the season when the cruise ship schedule starts to look like a bus service!
As Allan mentioned, wouldn't it be nice to see something different?
I don't mind the 'blocks of flats' that much that I would wish them away to Liverpool - and, besides, wouldn't they spoil that iconic skyline? ;) :D
Get your greedy little eyes off MARCO POLO! It is almost all we've got left.
You don't want to swap for a nice block of flats? Ventura perhaps? ;)
Allan a Wolves supporter? It could be worse, it could be Pompey. :-X
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Woooow, what a thread ... and I thought there was a fair bit of animosity between Rotterdam and Amsterdam. Seems I ain't seen nothing yet !
Ciao,
Rob.
;D
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Liverpool won't be getting Cunard transAtlantic voyages, which I feel might be the big prize they really want: http://www.clickliverpool.com/news/local-news/1215323-cunard-line-deny-liverpool-to-new-york-cruise-plans-.html