ShipSpotting.com Forum
Shipspotters all over the world => Shipping News and information => Topic started by: Alan Green on February 15, 2014, 08:45:55 AM
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Regretfully a passenger has been killed on the cruise ship Marco Polo by a freak wave crashing through a window whilst the vessel was transiting the English Channel on route to Tilbury.
Courtesy MSN:
An 85-year-old man died yesterday after the 22,000-tonne Marco Polo cruise ship was hit by a freak wave in the English Channel.
Water crashed through a window, injuring a number of people. The man was airlifted off the vessel along with a woman in her 70s, but later died. A number of other passengers received minor injuries and were treated on board.
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The BBC news report...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-26194897
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A freak wave in the relatively shallow English channel would be a sensational phenomenon. I doubt it.
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A freak wave in the relatively shallow English channel would be a sensational phenomenon. I doubt it.
Freak waves have been battering the SW coast of Britain for the past week. Google it!
Brgds
Phil
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I did. You mean the numerous reports in which eight meter waves are mistakenly referred to as "freak waves" or "monster waves"? I don't want to start quarrel about it, but heavy storms and monster waves are not the same.
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Freak = abnormal.
The waves experienced recently along Channel coasts were up to 75 ft high. That's abnormal, therefore freak.
Brgds
Phil
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On the other hand, "freak wave" is an often-used term for a rogue wave:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freak_wave (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freak_wave)
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That's basically what I meant, Tuomas. Freak- monster- or rogue waves (whatever you will call them) are very rare phenomena and their occurence cannot be predicted, but an area with severe weather can (and you will do everything to avoid it). That's why i have my doubts on the explanation of the shipping company on the "Marco Polo" regarding the cause of this marine casualty.
Reminds me on the "Louis Majesty".
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This is turning into a pointless discussion over the meaning of the word 'freak'. For God's sake someone died. At the moment, his family are not going to care much for pedantry over the definition of a sea state which caused this tragic incident.
Brgds
Phil
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Insurance wise the owners "have" to call it a freak wave, hence abnormal, because otherwise the family of the dead and the injured will have probably cause to question as to why a passenger ship sails into an area of bad weather,,KNOWINGLY.
That the SW coast of the UK experiencing high, abnormal waves in weather conditions like the last week is not new, but as sailor I would neither call it a freak wave. Most probably
these high waves are created by the strong w-bound tide flow and strong NW-SW winds building
up "cross" waves and seas and they can be nasty little critters and damage any kind of ship
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Phil, I know that someone died and it is indeed tragic. However, we are not his family. We are the general public who read the news about the incident from BBC. That's why it's okay for us to comment on every aspect of the news instead of just writing meaningless passages about how our prayers are with the deceased.
Of course, it might be possible that the wave that struck the ship was indeed a rogue wave (in which case I stand corrected), but until we get more information I'm inclined to believe that it was just (abnormally) heavy weather.
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Further information concerning the incident, courtesy of MSN:
The wife of a man killed after a freak wave hit a cruise ship in the English Channel has criticised the "badly maintained" vessel as she paid tribute to her "lovely husband".
James Swinstead, 85, died "almost instantly" after water rushed on board the British cruise ship Marco Polo as it was battered by waves during severe storms.
The 22,000-tonne vessel, operated by Cruise and Maritime Voyages (CMV), was heading for its home port of Tilbury in Essex at the end of a 42-night voyage when the incident happened on Valentine's Day.
Water crashed through a window, injuring a number of the 735 passengers, who were mainly British.
A female passenger in her 70s was airlifted off the ship, while 14 people were treated for minor injuries.
Mr Swinstead, a father-of-two from Colchester, Essex, was on the cruise with his wife Helen.
Speaking in Tilbury after the ship docked, she said: "I think it killed him almost instantly.
"With our insurance I think I'm entitled to
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Alan , these are not the words of a " Bereaved "woman who has just lost her loving husband ??.
Sounds more like some Scumbag lawyer chasing her down to sign the paper work.
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I just listened to the bereaved lady on BBC radio and I was struck by her ability to remember a "rusty puddle" at a window but she also said she had no idea of the actual injuries to her husband as she had not seen his injuries.
It struck me as rather odd.
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@ Derek
good posting
1000,s of vessel passing that area every year, and everytime something happens freak waves and such are the "fault" As you said,,the sea doesn,t care too much who is in it,s way.
I sail now 40 years and almost 30 as master, and I pretty sure that I had only once in my sea life a freak wave,, and that damaged the ship pretty, bulkheads bend and torn. A freak wavee would have a much more damage to a vessel like this. Tremendous high seas, combined with w-ly setting tides creating in that area unusual high seas, but no often freak waves. Freak waves is however the excuse for anything when it goes wrong.
Remember guys,, not 10 years ago when masters/sailors mentioned freak waves,,they were laughed at,, and suddenly they are a daily occurence !!!
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Film footage taken on board Marco Polo approx. 45 minutes before the incident has appeared on the internet:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26218503
Write the postcards before you go Derek....
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One life lost is one too many...
That does not mean Marko is unseaworthy or anything else....If I had the money I would book a cruise on her too. Stunning Lady that has weathered more storms than most other ships have to still do.....
And survive.
Love her,
tvtech
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Hi Derek,
Nice letter in the East Anglian Daily Times.
BBC Look East news last night (21.02.14) going overboard about the situation and pulling negative comments about Marco Polo (and Captain) from the website: Cruise Critic.
Apparently she will now have to undergo more inspections at Tilbury when she returns from her current cruise.
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As for BBC Look East, I don't recall them ever taking a positive spin on any news story. Their reporting in this particular instance lacks any credibility when each time they have covered the story they have said that the Marco Polo was on a 45 day cruise to the Azores. A case of not letting the facts get in the way of a good story.
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Sorry Clive but there was no mention of "45" on the programme in question.
Probably only available for a short time:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03vkpwl/Look_East_East_21_02_2014/ (first item)
Suspect that earlier broadcasts may have been intended as "four-to-five" days (for the last leg). Whether reporter, editor or listener misheard I have no idea.
The whole cruise wasn't far off "45 days" - elsewhere BBC have it as "42 nights", which is exactly what the brochure says.
5/1/2014 sailed Tilbury, 7/1 sailed Amsterdam
15/2 arrived Tilbury (one day early?), 17/2 arrived Amsterdam
No doubt the ship is generally well-found. She has indeed had clean port state inspections in Brazil (20/1/14), St John's [Antigua? apart from one working time records matter](15/11/13), Tilbury (26/7/13), Sortland (10/3/13). However, such inspections do not, and cannot, inspect everything.
I don't think that past complainants about leaking windows in the restaurant and cabins were likely to be lying. If I paid up to
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I understand that large cabin windows on the Marco Polo also gave way in a storm at the start of the 42 day voyage from which she was recently returning assumed as the repaired cabin windows shown on some photos on Deck 9 per deck plans and leading to those cabins being evacuated.
The five restaurant windows reported as broken through or damaged in the recent incident are amidships much lower down on Deck 7 per deck plans in the blue section of the hull not as shown in some press reports. Seals and frames can be a weak point ie compared to the steel and glass and may face several tons of force if hit by a large wave.
The deck plans are on https://www.cruiseandmaritime.com/ship/marco-polo/deck-plans and the earlier and recent incident is told by a police officer on board http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/Plymouth-couple-tell-cruise-ship-storm-death/story-20648578-detail/story.html . The item on Look East last night confirmed that in view of this and earlier incidents the MCA and Bermuda MA will re-inspect her when next at Tilbury on 2 March
It is unclear where the most recent incident occurred (?) or if was necessary due to traffic separation rules for the ship to take a heading that may have left her badly positioned against the sea. Notwithstanding this if so it would be possible for a ship to ask for permission to take a alternative course due to the risk from the sea conditions.
However freak or unusual conditions were forecast and so a freak wave or waves may occur it is also unclear if having come direct from the Azores there was any prior opportunity to shelter. The inspections on 2 March should hopefully provide assurance that all frames and or seals are intact.
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@ EWE
Forget about asking the traffic guys (VTS) to change course contrary to separation zone
I witnessed and also overheard a Masters request at Ushant to change course because
his cargo was seemingly moving and the French VTS refused his request and virtually threatened the Master with sending out the Coast Guard and detain the vessel.
VTS's were invented for protecting the coast lines and not for helping ships. Not even in
emergencies. I had my own dose of it 2 years ago on the Rio la Plata from the Montevideo
VTS. They threatened me with arrest in case I would drop anchor.
It is known by now in most of the shipping the last who helps you is the coastal state involved and/or their VTS/CG,s
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It is unclear where the most recent incident occurred (?) or if was necessary due to traffic separation rules for the ship to take a heading that may have left her badly positioned against the sea. Notwithstanding this if so it would be possible for a ship to ask for permission to take a alternative course due to the risk from the sea conditions.
However freak or unusual conditions were forecast and so a freak wave or waves may occur it is also unclear if having come direct from the Azores there was any prior opportunity to shelter. The inspections on 2 March should hopefully provide assurance that all frames and or seals are intact.
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I have not been able to ascertain where this incident occurred and if in UK or French or other waters although press coverage is vague it appears from some reports it may have been in the South Western Approaches to the Channel ie possibly French not British waters?
If in British waters we will see investigations by the MCA, the Flag State (Bermuda), the UK Marine Accidents Investigation Branch (MAIB), the UK Police and the Classification Society (DNV)(eg if a structural failure) and also a Coroners Inquiry drawing on these reports . It is possible the outcome may influence cruise ship design (noting the tendency to large windows in relatively low deck levels)and inspection regimes as frames and seals are the weakest point compared to the steel and glass and force may be several tonnnes.
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Notwithstanding the role of other agencies eg UK MCA etc etc the UK Marine Accident Investigations Branch have now clarified the position of the ship at the time of the incident as not in UK waters and their role as follows "The fatal accident involving a British passenger on board the Bahamas-flagged cruise ship Marco Polo is to be the subject of a safety investigation by the Bahamas Maritime Authority. Although the accident, which happened on 14 February in heavy weather off the north-west coast of France, involved a foreign-flagged ship and was not in its territorial waters, the United Kingdom has declared itself to be a "substantially interested state" under International Maritime Organization arrangements and will be kept informed of the progress of the investigation. As posted 22 Feb on their web page http://maib.gov.uk/latest_news/marco_polo.cfm which they will presumably update in due course
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It appears (without inference) the large (restaurant) windows that collapsed (visible in the lower ie blue section of the hull) were not a feature of the original design of the then Alexandr Pushkin or sisters eg Mikhail Lermontov but appear to have been incorporated later.