ShipSpotting.com Forum
Shipspotters all over the world => Site related news, functions and modules => Topic started by: simonwp on November 16, 2014, 05:24:35 PM
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Once again we see threads throwing mud at administrators, there has been too much of this recently. These people give their time freely, and try and work for the benefit of all site users, and should not be the subject of abuse, rude complaints, and in one case recently, downright untrue comments.
I realise that sometimes cultural differences and use of a second language for some posters mean that perhaps they come across as more aggressive than they mean to be, but, nevertheless, some recent posts have been unacceptable.
Remember, this site is free, and run by volunteers. It's not always perfect, and things do go wrong, but we should be grateful for the time and effort put in by the volunteers, and accept that things will not always be just how we would like it.
The rules are there to ensure the site runs as smoothly as possible. The rules about deletion of photographs seem to be the most emotive and subjective, but, that will always be the case, if you don't like it don't upload your photographs. The only suggestion I would make in this respect would be that if a photograph that doesn't meet the site rules is the first photographs of a vessel, then perhaps it could be given provisional acceptance until better photographs are uploaded. The photographer should be informed of this, and that the photograph could be deleted in future.
However it is not only photographs that have resulted in unacceptable posts. Several unnecessary posts were made a few weeks ago when the site had server problems. A lot of people put in a lot of work to put things right, but that wasn't good enough for some people.
Again, remember this site is free, and run by volunteers. They do not deserve abuse, even when things go wrong.
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Is it really so goddamn difficult?
http://www.shipspotting.com/support/faq.php?category=Site%20standards%20for%20all%20photos
Tomas
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Well said, keep up the good work, it is much appreciated
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I do wonder at times whether people indeed have far too much time on their hands. Either that, or an incapability to put it to good use.
Why kick holes out of something you've not had the temerity or wherewithal to establish yourself. Kids in glass houses, and all that. This site's here because some folk put time and effort into making sure it is, and it gives a forum we'd otherwise not have available to us.
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:)I think that this is a wonderful site - the best for shipping on the web, and long may it continue.
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Hello,
May I put my opinion forward?
I totally agree with everything said. Yes, I freely admit that I've been a bit of a pleb in the past and I'd like to apologise for any bad feeling I may have conveyed especially around Deletions of photo's. All in all, it's something that has to be accepted.
As for the site, well, whatever happened to it a few months ago I must have missed it but I would like to say, as far as I am aware, it's grown to become the most comprehensive site on the Net. The Administrators/programmers do a sterling job and it's a pleasure to be part of a wonderful community of like-minded individuals.
Regards,
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Disappointing ? The thread whereby admins spoke of "abuse by certain members" - who dared to voice their opinion - was meanwhile deleted by the webmaster from the site. The entry by Tomas containing a blatant abuse was allowed and probably also considered by the webmaster as "supportive". If this is the way Shipspotting is heading, then thanks, but no thanks. Please proceed without me.
Robert Smith.
Member since August 9th., 2005.
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I have to agree about the goddamn comment..
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Disappointing ? The thread whereby admins spoke of "abuse by certain members" - who dared to voice their opinion - was meanwhile deleted by the webmaster from the site. The entry by Tomas containing a blatant abuse was allowed and probably also considered by the webmaster as "supportive". If this is the way Shipspotting is heading, then thanks, but no thanks. Please proceed without me.
Robert Smith.
Member since August 9th., 2005.
Speaking personally, if this really is how you feel, and judging by the way you have expressed yourself, the site is better off without you.
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Really Simonwp ?
Then please answer this:
Do you think it's normal that freedom of speech is curtailed by the webmaster ?
Do you think it's normal that administrators use the word "abuse" for a normally worded comment which contents they do not like ?
Do you think it's normal that the text in question is hidden by the webmaster to avoid embarassment ?
Do you think it's normal that members write: "Is it really so goddamn difficult?"
I suggest you think twice before you write such clumsy comments.
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Calm down guys
Not worthwhile the whole bravado
What I did and still working on,,take all the funnel pics I had (close to 500)off the site.
But throwing all out the window,, makes no sense to me, yet
Otherwise, imagine if we pay,,then may be the discussions would be much "ruder" because
everybody think they have a right to it. This free story might be in that matter helpful !!
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Keep up the good work guys, you do a great job with this website.
Hopefully it will continue r many years to come.
Best regads
Leon
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Really Simonwp ?
Then please answer this:
Do you think it's normal that freedom of speech is curtailed by the webmaster ?
Do you think it's normal that administrators use the word "abuse" for a normally worded comment which contents they do not like ?
Do you think it's normal that the text in question is hidden by the webmaster to avoid embarassment ?
Do you think it's normal that members write: "Is it really so goddamn difficult?"
I suggest you think twice before you write such clumsy comments.
I thought you had left the site!!!!
I normally don't get involved with these sorts of threads. My purpose in being a member of this site is to help me enjoy my shipping hobby, not to engage in purile debates about freedom of speech etc, they are for other sites. When you join the site you accept the rules. You might not like them all, and they might not always go in your favour, but, in the grand scheme of things I don't believe it really matters. I'm always conscious of the fact that this is a free site, run by volunteers, who give up a considerable amount of time so that we can enjoy it. They might not always get things right, but that's just they was of things, they are trying their best, and giving there time freely.
At the moment I don't post photographs to this site, I'm too busy scanning a large collection of slides and photographs as part of a house downsize move, but eventually I will, and I know that, however hard I try, some will get deleted as substandard. I will accept that. Because I know the rules. Inevitably, when an administrator deletes a photograph, there will be an element of subjectivity in that decision, but he is doing this work as a volunteer, and the site is free, so it has to be accepted. This site is now extremely large, and sometimes seemingly harsh decisions have to be made to keep an element of control.
When people complain about photograph deletions, I often wonder why they post photographs, is it for the benefit of other members, or is it for their own aggrandisement, i.e. wanting to post the most photographs, be a top poster, post the best photographs. Is it really that important to you that all your photographs are accepted, and none deleted? If it is you are probably posting them for the wrong reasons.
When people complain about website and server problems I just wonder if they recognize just how much freely given time goes into sorting out these problems.
This site is here for our free enjoyment, and to help us with our hobby, anyone using it should always bear that in mind.
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...but he is doing this work as a volunteer, and the site is free, so it has to be accepted...
And here it is again, our favorite killer argument to end all discussions, or in other words, "As you don't have to pay for it would you please shut up!"
Let's be serious and tell me one feature that would qualify Shipspotting.com in it's current state as a pay-site. I wouldn't pay to be able to make my work available here. Or is there someone around who's paying his boss so that he allows you to work for him???This website exists because we, the users, are voluntarily uploading our photos here, which I suppose was the intention when this website was created.
Alas, nowadays it looks more like it's vice versa. It always sounds like, "Call yourself lucky that we are willing to accept your humble attempts on ship photography, the more so as you don't even have to pay for it"...
Furthermore I see no need to tell us again and again that the website is run by volunteers who are doing this in their rare spare time etc. etc. We all know that! I suppose that none of them was forced with a gun to his/her head to accept this job. They chose to do it by their own free will, so they have to live with it (excluding of course insults, verbal abuse etc. which is in no way tolerable!).
I think it's high time that this website returns to being a real community, defined as "a feeling of fellowship with others, as a result of sharing common attitudes, interests, and goals".
Jens
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We have all probably had deletions but we take it on the chin. Keep up the good work Ken and administrators...
Regards, Brian.
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--no photographers--- no photos - no shipspotting site !!
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@simominwp what is your contribution to this site? from you no one can delete a photo because there is no ! so don't write about things you can't imagine !
Oh I remember you do something with dia's and what is with the photos of the last 10 years? where are they? you can post them, in 5 hours 100 pictures no problem !
This started with a thread (where is this thread gone?) picures from Berge Stahl were posted and suddenly deleted.
The picture were out of the standard for this site but they were UNIQUE.
If the pictures were from a ship which is here 100 times no problem delete and throw it away.
But this were the only pictures from this theme.
Everyone must expect that the admin see the impotance of the pictures and let it in as long there are no better ones.
That is the fact.
And now all throw dirt on the photographer. We will loose another top photographer ( I have learnt this is only for the amount of pictures) with 2.000 pictures but obviosly all this picturese are very good..
Simonwp and the others do you step into the breach and posts 2000 pictures of such an interesting area as Rotterdam? Or do you have perhaps a better area?
This is not the only site for a photographer to publish his pictures there are a lot of others. The photographers don't need shipspotting.com but shipspotting.com neede the photographers.
Peter
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--no photographers--- no photos - no shipspotting site !!
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@simominwp what is your contribution to this site? from you no one can delete a photo because there is no ! so don't write about things you can't imagine !
Oh I remember you do something with dia's and what is with the photos of the last 10 years? where are they? you can post them, in 5 hours 100 pictures no problem !
This started with a thread (where is this thread gone?) picures from Berge Stahl were posted and suddenly deleted.
The picture were out of the standard for this site but they were UNIQUE.
If the pictures were from a ship which is here 100 times no problem delete and throw it away.
But this were the only pictures from this theme.
Everyone must expect that the admin see the impotance of the pictures and let it in as long there are no better ones.
That is the fact.
And now all throw dirt on the photographer. We will loose another top photographer ( I have learnt this is only for the amount of pictures) with 2.000 pictures but obviosly all this picturese are very good..
Simonwp and the others do you step into the breach and posts 2000 pictures of such an interesting area as Rotterdam? Or do you have perhaps a better area?
This is not the only site for a photographer to publish his pictures there are a lot of others. The photographers don't need shipspotting.com but shipspotting.com neede the photographers.
Peter
I think it's more of a case of no administrators, no webmaster, no website. There are enough photographers posting who are if not entirely happy with all aspects of the site, are at least happy enough to continue posting for the site not to be too disadvantaged if one or two unhappy photographers leave. As you say Shipspotting is not the only site, and other sites may well be more suited to the type of photographs you wish to post. As it is this site has certain standards, and, no- matter how unique a photograph is if it doesn't meet the standards it is deleted.
Please read my post properly before commenting on why I haven't yet posted any photographs on this site. I will be in the future, but it will be one view per vessel. And I will accept any deletions without argument, I can guarantee that.
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I think it's more of a case of no administrators, no webmaster, no website.
That's really some kind of elite thinking, isn't it? You make it sound like webmaster and admins are the government of Shipspotting.com.
"Would it not be easier in that case for the government to dissolve the people and elect another?" (Bertolt Brecht)
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LMAO !!!!!!
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You'd sure have my vote, Derek (that's in case of election, not in the case of stepping down) ;D
(And should you ever be elected King I'd already like to apply for the job of court jester) 8)
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Make it something like Danny Kaye was wearing in "The Court Jester" ;D
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A lot of contributors to this thread seem to think this argument is about deletions.
They're wrong. The argument is about the way members are treated these days.
It includes deletions, but the problem does not stop there.
I've been a member of this site from the beginning. I've experienced good times and bad times, contributed financially to it's survival and in the process uploaded almost 5,000 pictures, in conjunction with my fellow shipspotter Piero Corona.
He was responsible for unique pictures like scrapping in Chittagong, Suez Canal pictures and pictures in Lagos as well as Vietnam. I limited myself to the Rotterdam area where agents and port authorities were willing to assist. Sometimes the administrators did not particularly like certain pictures, but usually this would be resolved after consulting with the webmasters.
Last year, and in spite of the political upheaval in Egypt, Piero Corona managed to take a vast number of pictures at Suez. He had every right to be proud of this achievement. But then we were told these pictures were not welcome on the site. It had nothing to do with their quality, but only with the fact they were made in a politically unstable area.
After quite an argument with the webmaster we were allowed to upload them, but since then we've seen more and more deletions, to the point they started using ridiculous arguments. As an example, a Suez picture was deleted because of an obstructing lanternpole in the foreground.
The whole situation went from bad to worse and climaxed when pictures taken on board of the "Berge Everest" were deleted. That happened 5 minutes after I had logged out and in spite of 150 hits in their first half hour on the site. I did not complain on the forum at first, but voiced my dissatisfaction privately, to no avail. Only then did I go out on the forum.
In that thread, which was meanwhile removed by the webmaster, Phil English accused me of "abuse" and Ken Smith hailed a remark by a relatively unexperienced shipspotter as a prime example for all. After consulting with Piero Corona we decided to withdraw all our pictures which until then had received millions of hits.
This is the story. No more, no less. I have every right to ask if this is a site for the webmaster and his pals or for the benefit of a large number of shipspotters. And when I ask such a question I expect a decent reply without accusations of " abuse" from the administrators, censorship by the webmaster or being cursed at by other members. I am neither the first, nor the only member who is greatly annoyed by this attitude.
Robert Smith.
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Not the first time I hear such a story as yours, Robert, that's the reason I was quoting Brecht earlier in this forum thread.
(and when I say "hear" I don't mean hearsay)
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Welcome to the club Robert. So many good photographers already left this site.
And the admins still have no clue? I doubt it.
Wish they made the deletionprocess a little more user friendly.
Believe me there's a life outside this community :-)
Cheers man.
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Have to say, sometimes following the argument of some ADM,s isn,t easy,,but then the arguments on the other side sometimes are not much better.
May be some people have noticed that I deleted all my funnel pictures (about 500) and do not
upload anymore there also because of the notion that the ADM there has or had a problem with staying impartial.
Said that, most ADM,s and the Webmaster doing a good job also when sometimes I shake my head and Ken can confirm that we had our arguments. However for me and others this site is still the best I can find or what I came across so far.
and yes,,sad to see you go Robert
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I think it's time to put this thread to bed.
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you think its time to put it to bed.. very democratic indeed..
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Yes Fergal. It's called freedom of speech (and nothing to do with democracy).
I agree with Cody.
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So freedom of speech has nothing to do with democracy... A most interesting concept! It's getting better and better ???
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Shipspotting is not a government - or any other kind of organisation - in which the members exercise any power.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demokratie
We are however free to express our opinions on the forum, subject only to forum rules
http://www.shipspotting.com/support/faq.php?category=Code%20Of%20Conduct
Two different things.
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In the course of this thread I've been taken to task for not posting any photographs on this site (Peter), and described as an inexperienced shipspotter (Robert), so I thought I'd put things into perspective, although, I have to admit there is an ulterior motive.
I've recently retired after spending 43 years in the shipping industry, both at sea, and ashore, with professional qualifications on both sides. At sea I was a radio officer, and ashore I have worked fro two major international companies, and been actively involved in chartering, sale and purchase, ship management, port operations, agency, and safety. As shipping has been my hobby as well, I've been very fortunate. I've travelled extensively to all corners of the globe, except Australia, and been able to enjoy my hobby while working. During that time I've amassed a collection of over 100,000 slides and photographs (conventional and digital) of ships, and about 200,000 others.
While I've been working I've not really had the time to sort these out, and I'm now working on this. many of my early efforts might well be of interesting vessels, but they are not of good enough quality for this site (some are just rubbish!!!). Others don't meet site rules. But for the rest, when I've finished sorting them I will post on here. However I will only post if I think the photograph adds something to the site, e.g. is better than those already on of a ship, or shows it in an unusual livery. and not more than two per ship.
Since retiring I have still done some consultancy work. The latest project was to produce some promotional material for two major European ferry companies. This involved some photography work, so my skills must be Ok, and the end results were well received.
I also do some volunteering for our local Mission To Seamen, which is why I am supportive of the volunteers who run this site. I know first hand how difficult it is to recruit volunteers, and then keep them motivated, especially when people are being critical of their work. As our Port Missioner often say "The world is full of people who can tell you what you are doing wrong, and what you really should be doing, but ask them to come and help you do it, and they run a mile"
And this is the ulterior motive, a plug for members to support their local Mission To seamen, especially this Christmas, when they will be busy supporting seamen who are miles away from their families at this time, and feeling very lonely and cut-off. There ahs been debate regarding if photographers or webmaster are the most important element of this site, when actually it is the ships and the seamen who sail them. Without them there would be no hobby.
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Simonwp I did not refer to you as an inexperienced shipspotter. I referred to Ken Smith who quoted a statement by an inexperienced shipspotter as a prime example how we should behave. Read before you write please....
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Hello everyone,
I know deletions is never an easy topic. I am a long year member here, I have uploaded many ship photos and indeed, I had my good share of deletions.
The deletions are usually caused by the fact, that it is not really possible to be always objective towards own photographs. So, I get some deleted every now and then.
As I know, that 2 PEOPLE are looking on the photos, it is o.k. with me, if such is decided. Usually the reason is, that I missed out one of rule.
All that is o.k. with me.
The other "rants" members are having here, should however be taken serious by admins, and there should be a face-to-face conversation, taking eachothers serious etc.. and not a conversation like a teacher would have with a pupil. This is very important, I think and as well also solve problems, and not show "don't rock the boat" policy.
So, I would say: 90% of the work of the admins is o.k., the 10% can be talked about, and found a solution, if every party is showing good will.
Let's be a good community :)
Cornelia
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One of the big problems with deletions is a total lack of consistency. My reward for commenting on this in the past has invariably been dismissive or even spiteful.
Let
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Open Letter to the editor:
Hello Ken,
your message has been well noted.
What you should know:
Rule
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REXROTH !
I see that you highlighted one of my photos that should be deleted
I cannot seem to find any photos by you on the site !
The photo of the ship interspirit that was in contact with the wall at Alfred loch that I had published the Here I have now self deleted
If you have problems with my photos I would rather you come to me and tell me that you don't like the photo than make a point on the forum
I try to pick unusual photos for this forum and this was a one off occasion of a ship colliding with the sea wall and causing damage to the bow
I do get photos removed by admins and I now have no problem with it
If you have photos deleted from here then go and put them on another site which allow them
Someone once said " post quality photos not quantity "
I think he's quite right
If any other member has a problem with my photos here tell me and I will delete them
Your loss not mine
Kind regards
Peter j fitzpatrick
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Hey, Peter. Now just hold those doggone horses.
Where on earth did I say your photo should be deleted? You have totally missed the point. I happen to think that your photo was a good one and fully deserved to be on the website. My gripe was that another photograph, full of interest and showing work being done on the stern of the ship, should NOT have been deleted.
You are quite correct - I have no photographs on this website. I was under the impression that the site was for ship spotters rather than exclusively for ship photographers. I apologise for my misunderstanding.
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A few questions I would like answered as I too have noticed inconsistent standards relating to pictures acceptable to the site over recent months and when I queried this was not given a satisfactory answer.
1. Who briefs the Admins as to what is acceptable and what isn't?
2. Do Admins ever consult among each other as far as establishing if a picture is acceptable or not?
3.Is anyone benefitting financially from the pictures posted on this site? If so, then who?
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Thanks Ken, I'll accept your word for that. It's just that I don't seem to be the only person who has noticed the inconsistancy as far as site standards / requirements are concerned. I recently had a picture deleted for the reason that the vessel was too distant ind "picture not clear" , my eyes must be playing up because I've seen pictures of ships far more distant that that and others a whole lot fuzzier. The scanned pictures mentioned in the forum are great examples. The originals may have been good but they eere possibly scanned at low resolution.
Sometimes pictures are posted that show an interesting part of a vessel. I had a picture deleted because it didnt include the whole mast of the yacht . The point was to show the deck of a modern ocean racing yacht but even my explanation was met with a stern, "it does not comply" answer.
I was always under the impression that the purpose of the site was to share our common interest in things that float but that seems to have changed in recent times and it is interesting to note that others that feel likewise are by and large veteran contributors to the site.
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Yesterday or today three (3) of my photos posted (M/V Puffin Arrow) two (2) of them posted the 30th of January of 2015 and the other one in the year 2013, in all of them it is stated in the same robotic message the following:
"Dear Tomislav Raymondi,
Your photo of Puffin Arrow (Photo ID: 2182353) has been removed.
Reason: Exposure
The photo is too bright or too dark and detail difficult to see.
Personal message from admin:
Poor quality and grainy
Site standards can be found here:
http://www.shipspotting.com/support/faq.php?category=Site%20standards%20for%20all%20photos
Regards,
Shipspotting.com Photo Admins"
My question is, how did you realize that a photo posted in 2013 did not comply with the web site standards?
THIS HAS BEEN ENOUGH, I AM NOT GOING TO TOLERATE THE WHIMS OF WHO KNOWS WHO TO DELETE PHOTOS.
Regards
Tomislav Raymondi.
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Hi Tomislav,
To answer your question about your photo that was posted in 2013; a lot of images get posted onto the site so it's understandable that some may get missed by admin looking after the category. With the new summary page, some admins check to see if the ship is in the right category and may also check the images out as well. Searching the site in general also returns the odd photo that's been missed.
Kind Regards
Cody
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Thank you very much Cody for your kind reply.
Kind Regards
Tomislav Raymondi.
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It seems that recently there has been quite a few photos of the same ship by the same photographer/s that are very similar. Some are a bit more zoomed in then the other while with some the angle of the ship is just slightly different. Is it just me or have others noticed it?
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I find it also disappointing that more and more photo's appear here taken in the evening or even at night. Or with bad lightning, more "artistic" than "shipspotting".
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I am OK with evening shots. While they definitely look artistic (which I like), they do show the ship fully. Bad lighting where the ship is not visible well is certainly not OK.