ShipSpotting.com Forum
Shipspotters all over the world => Site related news, functions and modules => Topic started by: Allan RO on November 29, 2010, 11:07:27 AM
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Hi there all,
Last evening I saw a photo by Capt. Hilmar Snorrason of a vessel Thor taken in Reykjavik in 2005. There was no IMO, but a little digging suggested it was one of the forner Icelandic gun boats used in the cod wars of the 1970's. The admin's comment was that it had been 'dumped' in the 'shipping' category !!
I left a message saying that as the vessel is of historical importance, although another small fishing vessel is moored at the stern of the ship, it should be retained. The presence of 2 vessels of dissimilar types suggests the 'shipping' category to be the correct one for the photo, rather than it having been 'dumped' there. Dumped being the rather unattractive wording of the Admin involved. Hey presto, by this morning it had gone from the 'considered for deletion' category.
I have no idea as to whether it has been retained as even with an 'advanced search' the site comes up with over 1100 photo's involving the name 'Thor' which I am certainly not going through.
Two points here: the photo was posted in 2005, and we were told there would be no retrospective deletions. But clearly there are !!! Secondly, as a new Thor is currently on delivery to the Iceland coastguard, the Thor in the picture was probably laid up awaiting her fate - so could not really be classified.
I am worried that many historical photos may be wiped from the site by ignorance and a general lack of understanding of what might actually be of historical maritime significance.
Allan
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The said vessel Thor is still afloat and I cannot understand reason for her to be deleted. Thank's Allan for pointing this out as I had not seen these changes.
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Hi Capt.Hilmar Snorrason,
I have been checking up on the situation that Allan highlighted regarding your photo of Thor.
Having looked at the thumbnail of the deleted shot,and given its historic significance, if you would please re submit the photograph I will ensure it is retained on the site.
Apologies for the inconvenience.
Kind regards
Derek
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Hi Derek
I'm pleased that this pic. may be saved if Capt. Snorrason can be bothered to re-submit it. Frankly, if it were one of mine I probably would not !! Why should he have to go to the trouble of re-submitting, when the photo should not have been deleted in the first place.
It was only by chance that I saw the photo and then added comments regarding the history of the vessel and asking that it should be retained. But even after taking the trouble to do this, the photo was still deleted. Why ? Who took the decision to delete, and why were the comments overlooked ?
This suggests that if a photo is 'considered for deletion', it will be anyway, no matter what comments are attached to it, nor indeed whether it may or may not be of any particular significance.
The main point of concern raised here is how many other photos are going to be lost to the site through a seeming general ignorance of shipping and the over zealous deletion mind-set of certain Admins.
Allan
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The best and onliest way to protect a foto from deletion by our glorious fotoadmins is to stop uploading any foto.
Rgds.
Juergen
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.............this is exact the way I'm going since nearly 2 years.
Some weeks ago they deleted a photo from me from 2006!. The policy here is to have mainstream photos for their commercial use
Xylad-Peter
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Hi Ken
I note your reply, but basically you have not answered the two main points I raised. The first being why was a photo posted in 2005 suddenly put up for deletion, when we were assured that there would be no retrospective deletions. Secondly, after having done a little research on the vessel in the picture and ascertaining that it could be of historical significance, and having put a comment on the photo to that effect, why was it still deleted ? Did neither of the people responsible for deleting the photo (we are told there is a second opinion required prior to deletion) read my note, or was the posted information simply ignored ?
As you question why I have not put myself forward for any Admin position, I already give of my time to the hobby, as secretary of Solent Maritime Society. Although not particularly onerous in it's time demands per se, I do prepare a new slide show every year which I also present to a number of local World Ship Society branches, the preparation of which does consume a considerable amount of time. I also present a second slide show each December which is a review of Solent shipping for that year. I also have to eke out a living.
regards
Allan
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I have never seen a foto of the ADMINS in the Deletion-Category.
Do they have other site standards than the common member?
After the deletion of my foto from the RIJNBORG yesterday (reason was point 5 of the sitestandards for all ships) I checked the account of the fotoadmin. In a really short view I found a high percentage of fotos which absolutely do not comply with the site standards.
The fotoadmins can only judge over other members fotos when their own uploaded fotos comply with the site standards at 100%.
Rgds.
Juergen
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Hi Juergen,
Photo Admins have to comply with the same site standards as any other member would. I can back that up by saying a couple of my photos were deleted the other day.
Kind Regards,
Cody :)
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Hi Cody
That leaves me baffled with the simple thought that if you knew they did not comply with site standards, with which you must be well aware, why did you post them. ??
Allan
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Hi Allan,
I thought one of my photos would be fairly boarder line with site standards and the other quite reasonable quality.
Kind Regards,
Cody
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Allan, I too have been in the same boat as Cody recently. Now no disrespect towards the deletion admins here, but I am getting a bit concerned that we are seeing too many images that are right on the borderline of compliant being deleted especialy if there is some significance to the shot.
Now as a Admin I hate having to recomend images for deletion and I try to avoid it as much as I possibly can, I will write to the member concerned point out my concerns about the image and more often or not the member will either delete the image them selves and fix it up and repost or they will take a chance, most of the time they are greatful for me pointing it out.
But it concerns me the most is the pre digital camera, Pre Auto focus days and low resolution scanner days, which one of my images deleted recently come under all 3 of these issues, the admin who refered the image for deltion said "the category Admin noted
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I have never seen a foto of the ADMINS in the Deletion-Category.
Do they have other site standards than the common member?
After the deletion of my foto from the RIJNBORG yesterday (reason was point 5 of the sitestandards for all ships) I checked the account of the fotoadmin. In a really short view I found a high percentage of fotos which absolutely do not comply with the site standards.
The fotoadmins can only judge over other members fotos when their own uploaded fotos comply with the site standards at 100%.
Rgds.
Juergen
Hello J
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Hello,
It was a very nice picture of the Rijnborg.
Once something other than just a picture of a boat.
Beautiful white area and the boat was visible!
Are worse pictures on Shipspotting.
Marcel
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Hi all
I can not seem to see the post I added this afternoon. It's too late to try to remember it all, but the gist of it was that despite three rather lengthy replies, my original point about retrospective deletions, has still NOT been answered.
Allan
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Hi all
I can not seem to see the post I added this afternoon. It's too late to try to remember it all, but the gist of it was that despite three rather lengthy replies, my original point about retrospective deletions, has still NOT been answered.
Allan
Allan
Click the Support tab on the Home page. Under the heading Uploading photos guidance see Items 14, 15 and 16
These were announced in the Forum by Derek Sands in March 2010. The presentation has changed for the migrated site, but not the words.
Clyde
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Hi all
I can not seem to see the post I added this afternoon. It's too late to try to remember it all, but the gist of it was that despite three rather lengthy replies, my original point about retrospective deletions, has still NOT been answered.
Allan
Allan
Click the Support tab on the Home page. Under the heading Uploading photos guidance see Items 14, 15 and 16
These were announced in the Forum by Derek Sands in March 2010. The presentation has changed for the migrated site, but not the words.
Clyde
Having read the three items, they bring us right back to Allan's original questions.
The photo referred to by Allan seems to meet pretty much all of the above criteria.
Despite this issue being raised over and over again, nothing seems to have changed.
It is a sign of something amiss when an admin feels obliged to express his frustration at the same issues.
While I can understand Ken's frustration, suggesting that Allan was making some sort of attack on the admins was not a good answer. He wasn't; he was querying the whole process, although he may have been querying the actions of the admin responsible for this deletion in the first place who caused offence with the comment about the photo being "dumped".
As the admin chose to remain anonymous (I thought we had been round this one too, a long time ago), may I suggest the admin contacts Allan and the original poster directly and offers an explanation? Perhaps this help defuse the issue.
Kelvin
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Hello everybody
This is one reason why i defer posting any of my photo's on this site, i was in the understanding that this is a Shipspotting site for the average spotter, not a professional camera club
Adrian
You cannot make money with average fotos.
I think it is necessary that the deletion policy will be discussed here again and again.
http://i55.tinypic.com/mta2io.jpg
This foto was published today in a german daily newspaper with about 150 000 reader as the foto of the day.
It was not good enough for SS and deleted because the main object (Rijnborg) was obstructed by TREES.
Rgds.
Juergen
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Hi Clyde
In reply to you post. Section 15 of the guidelines ends, 'the uploading member will be advised.......' The first Capt. Snorrasen knew of the deletion was when I made the first post on the subject. So the Admin concerned did not adhere to the wording of point 15.
In section 16 : 'shots of historical value, or for research/interest etc, may be retained.'
I highlighted the fact that the vessel was involved in the 1970's cod wars and was therefore of historical interest, prior to its deletion, and gave this as a reason NOT to delete the photo. But my information was clearly dismissed as irrelevant. So again, point 16 was totally ignored by the Admin, who was clearly hell bent on deleting this photo for whatever reason.
Allan
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Hello everybody
This is one reason why i defer posting any of my photo's on this site, i was in the understanding that this is a Shipspotting site for the average spotter, not a professional camera club
Adrian
You cannot make money with average fotos.
I think it is necessary that the deletion policy will be discussed here again and again.
http://i55.tinypic.com/mta2io.jpg
This foto was published today in a german daily newspaper with about 150 000 reader as the foto of the day.
It was not good enough for SS and deleted because the main object (Rijnborg) was obstructed by TREES.
Rgds.
Juergen
The photo was deleted by me after a joint decision by the Webmaster and the Deputy Webmaster.
If it had been retained on site, it would have been used as a precedent by many members who wanted to upload photos with a wide variety of obstructions.
You have not told the members that in my message to you, I quoted your own previous comment to the photo "Foto must be deleted, does absolutely not fulfill the site standard."
Clyde
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Hi Clyde
In reply to you post. Section 15 of the guidelines ends, 'the uploading member will be advised.......' The first Capt. Snorrasen knew of the deletion was when I made the first post on the subject. So the Admin concerned did not adhere to the wording of point 15.
In section 16 : 'shots of historical value, or for research/interest etc, may be retained.'
I highlighted the fact that the vessel was involved in the 1970's cod wars and was therefore of historical interest, prior to its deletion, and gave this as a reason NOT to delete the photo. But my information was clearly dismissed as irrelevant. So again, point 16 was totally ignored by the Admin, who was clearly hell bent on deleting this photo for whatever reason.
Allan
Your first statement misleads the members. A notification message had been sent, and the photo deleted before you made your post.
You state "But my information was clearly dismissed as irrelevant. So again, point 16 was totally ignored by the Admin, who was clearly hell bent on deleting this photo for whatever reason." Those remarks are based on false assumptions. If I had seen the comment you say you posted I would have kept the photo and asked the member for the information not supplied when uploading.
Clyde
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Hello Clyde
You are totally incorrect. I added my comment to the photograph whilst it was still in the 'photos considered for deletion' section. So either my comments regarding the history of the vessel were not read, not understood or ignored. And if Capt. Snorreson was told of the likely deletion, how come the first he knew of it was from this forum ??
I am not the one misleading members, I suspect it may the the Admin militia who are doing that.
Allan
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Hello Clyde
You are totally incorrect. I added my comment to the photograph whilst it was still in the 'photos considered for deletion' section. So either my comments regarding the history of the vessel were not read, not understood or ignored. And if Capt. Snorreson was told of the likely deletion, how come the first he knew of it was from this forum ??
I am not the one misleading members, I suspect it may the the Admin militia who are doing that.
Allan
Allan
Read it all again, carefully.
You are confusing your comment to the photo with your post to the Forum
Clyde
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Clyde
I added my comment to the photo stating the reasons why it was of historical significance and asking for its retention, whilst the photo was in the 'considered for deletion' category. I could not have done so after it had been deleted - that is an impossibility !!
I started the thread after my comments were ignored and the photo was deleted. That as far as I am concerned is the crux of the matter.
Allan
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Clyde,
but you are so honest to delete also the 5-10 of your fotos which I have claimed as "not complying with the site standards of SS "
Juergen
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I still do not understand, why a perfect photo, with a more areal view is deleted, while really crap photos can stay on this site. No need to mention, ships in a dense fog or experimental night view photos. I like night view photos, but only when a ship can be seen.
I like ships in the fog, as long as the ship is CLEARLY vissible. I like a ships in the Kiel canal with some trees which do not obstruct more than an average tugboat, quay, moring rope or swell. I do not understand why admins go into a senseless discussion. Your time is limited, your work is important, look before you leap an go for the real CRAP.
Just my two cents.
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This one was deleted???? ???
Stupid.....It`s a superpicture.
Regards Ron
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Just wondering, how do we access 'photos considered for deletion', it's not in the "category quicklist"?
Regards
Bob
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Derek,
just yesterday there were 2 fotos considered, one small tug "too far away" and an inland vessel little overlighted by the sun, that's what I cannot understand.
Both were ok in my opinion, but I'm not an admin.
Rgds.
Juergen
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Hallo J
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Just wondering, how do we access 'photos considered for deletion', it's not in the "category quicklist"?
Regards
Bob
Thanks for asking that question Bob, I thought it was only me being daft!
Having found it, I see there is one photo in that category but I note there is no comment explaining why it is considered for deletion. It seems to me a very good photo.
Kelvin
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And the admin containerships did it again, he deleted 2 wonderful fotos with at least 13 comments and no webmaster or other official of this site protects the member for this man.
http://i54.tinypic.com/2ez2p87.jpg
http://i56.tinypic.com/s4xfo0.jpg
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thats indeed a pity, really nice pictures, i do not understand the reason. uploading pic's here might be waist of time. i've loved to look at the winterly VALPARAISO EXPRESS, now she has gone ??? ??? :( :'(
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UNBELIEVABLE
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Dear Friends
This topic of deletions can have thousands of interpretations, when is referred to details of the photos such as size of vessels if light is abaft or fcrward, if horizon is highly or little sloped or tilted and so on.
In order to finish with all this endless discussions I suggest that photoes which are really bad can be deleted without any explanation, for instance blurred photos, part of vessels only and so on.
Kind Regards
Tomislav Raymondi.
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Hello everybody,
Last night I stood at 10230 photos!!
This morning I check the site and i'm on 10229 photos?
who deleted some pictures without messages????
Regards, Marcel
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I would just like to say happy new year to derek, ken & all people out there who do such a wonderful job with SHIPSPOTTING for us users. We should be ever so greatful to these 2 plus a lot of others world wide who give of their time & talents to allow sea lovers like me to have such a free site that i love & am able to use to keep in touch with sea life. God bless you all & keep healthy & keep up such a beautiful site for us older seadogs.
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I have been deleting for some time now. Over 500 photos deleted, because I think quality prefers over quantity. I cannot delete some pics, because of the following reason:
"Error deleting: Unknown column 'date' in 'field list'"
Can somebody advise me how to delete a photo, when this occurs?
thanks and rgds
Stan
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Hi Stan,
I will pass your comments on to Henrik and get back to you.
Kind regards
Derek
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The same problem by this pic
http://www.shipspotting.com/gallery/photo.php?lid=1233836 (http://www.shipspotting.com/gallery/photo.php?lid=1233836)
I dont can delte because of the reason: Error deleting: Unknown column 'date' in 'field list'
Regards
Andreas
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First a happy new year to all of you, specially to the adminteam.
A special hello to those members who have the courage to go through their photos and delete those that do not meet the sitestandards or their own high standards.
I myself do not have the time to go through my photos at this moment, if the adminteam find some that do not meet the standard, be my guest. (not too many pls ;-)
Have fun
Fred
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Hi Stan and Andreas,
I have been informed by Henrik that the problem you have been having with deleting should
now be solved.
If any further problems please let me know.
Kind regards
Derek
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Hi Derek,
yes the deliting is ok now.
Thanks
Andreas
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Thanks, just deleted another 10.
rgds Stan
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good day all
defenitely in my opinion the RIJNBORG picture is a great shot and is good quality.
The deletion is nonsense to my thinking. However I have a suggestion, which may have been
made already but I did not see it.
Here it is
When a picture is choosen for deletion why not put it in a special cathegory on the site
(for example, "VOTE, on hold for delete/stand by") and then let the members vote on it.
Once the vote count is in, will say 50 members say it,s a good shot withhin a certain time period and worth to be retained, it will be reposted to the correct cathegory.
I had about 15-20 pictures deleted over time(may be more), thats out of about 8150 posted not bad, one for example, the vessel was already
quite well documented as reason for deletion :the shot was zoomed and slight hazy because of hot weather.
which is not uncommon when one passes with a ship a coastline. My understanding is that it is a "ship-spotting" site !!!!.
another one was just recently ,a dredge working at night in the panama canal widening
project. the reason given: not all details could be seen clearly, ok,,but then all night shots have to be deleted. I am not sure,but I think there are not much night shots of dredges working on the panama canal widening,which surely is a historical event, on this site, but nevertheless it was deleted.(and grudgingly accepted :-) )
However the pictures should have a certain standard and oneself is often not to objective of it,s own shots. But then, does it make sense to have on this site some containerships (CSAV Santos for example, which I sailed twice as Capt 2004 and 2008) for 187th time steaming up and down the schelde/maas/elbe ?
For the purpose of pure spotting it would be fine but for a site where one can go and research/look/enjoy ships it does not make really sense to see the same vessel for the "umteenth" time from the stb side steaming down a river.
just some thoughts
rgds
to all and a happy and healthy 2011
capt ted
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good day all
defenitely in my opinion the RIJNBORG picture is a great shot and is good quality.
The deletion is nonsense to my thinking. However I have a suggestion, which may have been
made already but I did not see it.
Capt. Ted, it was not an admin foto.
Regds.
Juergen
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J
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Well done Cornelia ;D
Let me say this as a humble member and not as an admin, I agree 100% with what you say. We have a saying in Britain; EITHER PUT UP, OR SHUT UP!
You've deleted your photos Juergen, made your point, now leave us in peace.
Brgds
Phil
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NOT AN ATTACK ON ANYBODY:
Just the haunting fact of this topic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MccmHwA-c4U&feature=fvw
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Cornelia,
I have not brought back the theme to the forum, but I'm still a member, and as a member I feel so free to make my comment to a theme. Do I have no longer permission to do so?
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J
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Let there be love ;)
:-*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enSIQHlZF74
:-*
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Capt. Ted, it was not an admin foto.
Regds.
Juergen
hi juergen,,what that has to do with the adm foto or not. Fact is that pictures will be deleted for this or that reason. We as members will ahve to live with that. Or as you did,
delete all your fotos. But then, if you decided already to delete all yourself why then keep bugging the adm,s and other members with keep going on this subject.
Cornelia and Phil are right as far as I am concerned. Show up or shut up.
you don,t like the site anymore, fine. Others do. Some changes may have to be made. sure
has to,,but please in a civilized manner and not keep ranting over just one subject.
It,s a waste of time, go , shoot some good pics and post them. As Ken said,,put them here,,or go elsewhere, but stop posting rather unimportant comments to no effecy other then seemingly annoy others.
happy new year
capt ted
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Ron:
Matthew 5:9: "Blessed are the peacemakers . . . .."
Rgds
Bob
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I will proceed delete most of my photo from this website!
Sorry about that. I consider that I am a now a dedicated ship photographer of some standing.
And from recent comments I had I cant have it both ways giving my pictures as free-bee and at the same time selling them for a fair price.
I had confidence that shipping corporations would gladly accept to pay a minimal price.
It is clearly from a very recent inquiry from a major , not the case; it appears they grab any thing they can.
I will go on posting here, but only for short periods, some of my photos because this is a great sharing site.
I might have had kept a growing interest should this site turn to allow for pro ships stock photo.
I thank all of you for your dedication to our common passion a contribution to what is now my work.
There are many great ship photographers here many that also get an income from their photographic talents; I would greatly like to benefit from their experience if they care to PM me .
Jean.
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Hi Jean,
I hope you do continue to post on here for the good side of it that you have mentioned.
If I understand the thrust of your message correctly you have been mis-treated by a shipping major with regard to the use of your photos?
Perhaps you could provide more detail in order that others can be wary of them?
Good luck with turning professional ship photographer, I hope it works out well for you.
Regards
John Jones
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Well I can't complaint too loudly! They were, until now, free for crews and amateurs. And they say, the companies, it is for internal presentations. But what they do not say is presentation to potential clients.
Very difficult if impossible to check any of it at all! Even I still have some ears in the industry.
I only want to recover my expenses and efforts to this passion!
I wont become rich and famous for sure but I will have great fun working. That if the management tasks don't overcome the creative passion.
Webshots.com for one, the largest photo sharing album on the web allows for pro-stock-photo!
Why this shipsspotting site wouldn't take advantage of its niche position in this specialized market by selling the download of HQ ships photos or very interesting ones? The tools for managing such an option are already available as a kit .
But I would suggest no third party management to check upon, for the selling op.
I would much prefer to do this here than on a general photographers stock-photo website that I am considering from now on.