Author Topic: Hapag Lloyd orders four 13,200TEU Vessels from Hyundai Heavy Industries  (Read 7533 times)

Offline Andrew McAlpine

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Hi,

It has been confirmed today that Hapag Lloyd has placed and order for four 13,200teu container vessels with Korean shipbuilding company Hyundai Heavy Industries.
As part of the deal it was also agreed that the six new vessels ordered in the beginning of 2008 each with a nominal capacity of 8,749 teu should be upgraded to the same making a total of ten 13,200teu vessels which are due for delivery between July 2012 to November 2013. 

These ten large vessels comply with all current environmental requirements.
The vessels are intended for service on the Far East routes operated jointly with the partners NYK, OOCL, MISC in the Grand Alliance.

https://www.hapag-lloyd.com/en/press_and_media/press_release_page_18057.html

Regards
Andrew
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Offline Captain Ted

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Re: Hapag Lloyd orders four 13,200TEU Vessels from Hyundai Heavy Industries
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2010, 03:21:11 PM »
BAD ENOUGH, THAT A VIRTUALLY BANCRUPT COMPANY IS KEPT ALIVE BY THE GERMAN GOVERNMENT AND ORDERS EVEN MORE CONTAINER VESSELS INTO A OVERSUPPLIED MARKET AND THROUGH THAT BRINGS  COMPANIES WHICH ARE MANAGED GOOD IN JEOPARDY. REDICULOUS OR IDIOTIC!!!!
NOW!!!,,,if we could get rid of the sailors,,how safe shipping would be !!!!!!!!

Offline jan_t

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Re: Hapag Lloyd orders four 13,200TEU Vessels from Hyundai Heavy Industries
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2010, 04:08:00 PM »
Captain Ted,

before describing something you apparently misunderstood as 'idiotic' or 'ridiculous' I suggest you check you facts first.

Like all container lines, Hapgag-Lloyd went through a rough patch in 2008 and 2009 - the years of the economic crisis. The carrier was indeed offered government aid - not in the form of a cash injection though, but in form of government guarantees to back up existing and new bank loans. Hapag-Lloyd never (!) used this money. Instead, the carrier's owners chipped in and HL's largest owner TUI recently increased its shareholding in HL through the conversion of hybrid capital. Not long ago, the state loan guarantees were formally returned 'untouched'.

By the way - at the end of September, HL completed the most profitable quarter in its history with an operating profit of Eur 264 million.

About the orders:

HL was relatively cautious with new vessel orders in the past. Even after the recent conversion (of contracts) of six ships from 8,750 teu to 13,092 teu and the new orders for four 13,092 teu vessels, HL's orderbook only stands at ca 20% of the carrier's total capacity. Taking into consideration that until 2012/2013 when the new ships are due, HL can return a significant number of ships to their owners (since the contracts expire) and will dispose of several +20-year ships, the 'net'capacity impact of the new ships may be as low as about 10-15%. An annual growth of 3-4% will suffice to fill the new ships. This does not even take into account the economies of scale which can be realised by operating 13,000 teu ships instead of 8,750 teu ships.

Furthermore, HL makes use of the presently favourable shipbuilding prices, which are way below the marks they had reached some years ago. I therefore believe that HL's move is indeed a very prudent one.

Thus, I suggest that you don't jump to silly conclusions without knowing anything of the economies of shipping, ship financing and the particular carrier's situation.

What's with the all UPPERCASE writing anyway - no need to shout...



 
« Last Edit: December 15, 2010, 04:16:02 PM by Jan Tiedemann »

Offline Marc

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Re: Hapag Lloyd orders four 13,200TEU Vessels from Hyundai Heavy Industries
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2010, 11:21:54 AM »
Hello Jan,

i've read same information as you.
Many companies asked for financial aid in world economy crisis, so this was no unusal case.

Cpt. Ted: Would be better to slow down.

Cheers
Marc

Offline Captain Ted

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Re: Hapag Lloyd orders four 13,200TEU Vessels from Hyundai Heavy Industries
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2010, 04:17:24 PM »
YES MARC, I AGREE WITH YOU ON THE FACT THAT MANY COMPANIES USED HELp

Hapag was not in the crisis because of shipping crisis in general but because they took over
a few other container companies ,namely the canadian PAC ? (not sure if I have the name right) They did that in order to be so big that others were not able to take them over too easy. The absorbing of that company was for hapag at that time extreme difficult and costly.
Then MOL seemed to try anyway to take them over which was only avoided by forming a new
investor circle which outbid MOL. (this was done partial also by and through political measures by the Hamburg senate) Only a few month after this was done the real crisis hit and hapag was totally unprepaired. I just had lately a female friend as guest in our home
who works at one of the investor companies and quote " hapag is a disaster" unquote
Also , if you would go a little deeper into hapag history then you would also know that
hapag was one of the leading companies of abolishing german sailors on german ships.
Also when they have still quite a big german officer contigent nowadays, but compared what they had and what is now it is miniscule.
my standpoint is in these matters, when companies making big mistakes like this may be governments should not always rescue them, special in germany and special there are a lot of container companies were very well capable and able to pick up where hapag would have left a gap.
On the loan guarantee,s you are right, but does that not say loud and clear that they would have been history without that and were at that time considered by bank as not "stable " any more to receive cash infusions via credits.
The shipping crisis affected the whole industrie, but some bad managed companies were special hard hit and that was their own doing.
The other point, if the german government would not have stepped in, than the container market crisis would perhaps been already much quicker turned around. don,t forget in this matter that hapag is not only a shipping company but also makes its own cargo logistics and a big company in that segment not anymore in the field would have given good managed companies more breathing room .
brgds
capt ted

p.s. sorry on the capitals, did not even notice


NOW!!!,,,if we could get rid of the sailors,,how safe shipping would be !!!!!!!!

Offline Andrew McAlpine

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Re: Hapag Lloyd orders four 13,200TEU Vessels from Hyundai Heavy Industries
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2010, 12:21:31 AM »
YES MARC, I AGREE WITH YOU ON THE FACT THAT MANY COMPANIES USED HELp

Hapag was not in the crisis because of shipping crisis in general but because they took over
a few other container companies ,namely the canadian PAC ? (not sure if I have the name right) They did that in order to be so big that others were not able to take them over too easy. The absorbing of that company was for hapag at that time extreme difficult and costly.
Then MOL seemed to try anyway to take them over which was only avoided by forming a new
investor circle which outbid MOL. (this was done partial also by and through political measures by the Hamburg senate) Only a few month after this was done the real crisis hit and hapag was totally unprepaired. I just had lately a female friend as guest in our home
who works at one of the investor companies and quote " hapag is a disaster" unquote
Also , if you would go a little deeper into hapag history then you would also know that
hapag was one of the leading companies of abolishing german sailors on german ships.
Also when they have still quite a big german officer contigent nowadays, but compared what they had and what is now it is miniscule.
my standpoint is in these matters, when companies making big mistakes like this may be governments should not always rescue them, special in germany and special there are a lot of container companies were very well capable and able to pick up where hapag would have left a gap.
On the loan guarantee,s you are right, but does that not say loud and clear that they would have been history without that and were at that time considered by bank as not "stable " any more to receive cash infusions via credits.
The shipping crisis affected the whole industrie, but some bad managed companies were special hard hit and that was their own doing.
The other point, if the german government would not have stepped in, than the container market crisis would perhaps been already much quicker turned around. don,t forget in this matter that hapag is not only a shipping company but also makes its own cargo logistics and a big company in that segment not anymore in the field would have given good managed companies more breathing room .
brgds
capt ted

p.s. sorry on the capitals, did not even notice

Capt Ted,
 I would just like to point out that is was NOL (Neptune Orient Lines) that was interested in puchasing Hapag Lloyd and not MOL (Mitsui O.S.K Lines)

rgds Andrew
Containership admin




Offline Captain Ted

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Re: Hapag Lloyd orders four 13,200TEU Vessels from Hyundai Heavy Industries
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2010, 12:44:59 PM »
thanks andrew

you are correct

brgds
capt ted
NOW!!!,,,if we could get rid of the sailors,,how safe shipping would be !!!!!!!!

Offline jan_t

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Re: Hapag Lloyd orders four 13,200TEU Vessels from Hyundai Heavy Industries
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2010, 10:19:04 AM »
Captain Ted,

don't get me wrong, I don't want to be all smug here, but I do not understand why you insist to keep commenting on an issue that you apparently do not know much about. What is the point in doing so? Frankly, I cannot follow any of your points. You keep getting the facts wrong and then you draw false conclusions from these 'facts'. Pretty pointless I dare say.

You say: 'Hapag was not in the crisis because of shipping crisis in general but because they took over a few other container companies'. Well, this is evidently wrong. Anyone in the industry will tell you that it is never easy to integrate a large company after an aquisition and merge the operations. Significant costs will commonly occur. However, these are one-off expenses and once the integration is completed, the (now larger) company will permanently benefit from the economies of scale. The acquisition of CP by Hapag-Lloyd fell into a phase of market consolidation and it enabled Hapag-Lloyd to remain the largest player in the Transatlantic market. Though Hapag-Lloyd payed a relatively high (strategic) price for CP ships, the takeover actually helped the carrier in the long run. In fact, the integration of CP ships went much smoother than most people would have thought. At the time, it was actually Maersk Line that struggled more with the integration of P&O Nedlloyd. Maersk lost numerous key accounts during that period. The fact that Hapag-Lloyd did not at all swallow a 'poison pill' with CP is impessively proven by that fact that only a few years after the acquisition NOL-Temasek made a takeover bid for USD 6 to 7 bn. This price was clearly a strategic one or do you think that NOL-Temasek were prepared to pay USD 7 bn for a company that had just successfully ruined itself?

By the way: You confused the Japanese carrier Mitsui (MOL) with the Singaporean NOL-Temasek, which brand their container operations as APL. MOL never made a takeover bid for Hapag-Lloyd to my knowledge.

I don't see what Hapag's history of employing foreign crews on its ships has anything to do with your assumptions on the carrier's quality of management and financial stability. Like every major shipping line, Hapag-Lloyd has to employ multinational crews. At least, the carrier makes much more of an effort than most other lines to have a large share of its vessels under its home flag. All(!) of Hapag-Lloyd's big mainline vessels fly the German flag. Go and have a look how many big MSC ships under Swiss or Italian flag you'll find or show me one (!) big MOL container ship under Japanese flag. So by what standard are you judging?

On your point: 'On the loan guarantees, you are right, but does that not say loud and clear that they would have been history without that and were at that time considered by bank as not "stable " any more to receive cash infusions via credits.'

No, it does not. On the contrary. I thought it was pretty much common ground nowadays that it was not the industrial sector which dragged the 'poor innocent banks and highly responsible investment brokers' into the crisis. Cause and effect actually ran the other way. As we all know today, investment banks, securities traders and stockmarket brokers were at root of the problem since they ingored (and created!) massive risks in order to yield short-term profits. It was  the rest of the industry which was then dragged into the abyss.  The problem for Hapag-Lloyd and many others was that cargo volumes dwindled during the crisis and the companies incurred heavy losses as a consequence. In urgent need for fresh credit lines, they turned to the financial markets, but the markets had collapsed by then. Bank loans were no longer available. In many cases not because the company asking for a loan was not creditworthy, but because most banks were near-bankrupt themselves! This is (in Hapag-Lloyd's case) where the German government stepped in. After an investigation which found that the carrier was structurally sound, the goverment provided an indemnity bond which helped Hapag to tap fresh funding. As I mentioned earlier, this guarantee was later returned 'untouched'.

It amazes me that your 'free market' point of view has a problem with Hapag-Lloyd receiving a helping hand in form of an indemnity bond (which it then does not have to fall back to), whereas at the same time you do not object NOL-Temasek's (assuming that was whom you meant) takeover attempt for the shipping line. As you might happen to know, the latter is not a private-sector company, but indeed a state-owned Singaporean sovereign wealth fund. Conveniently, the company's CEO is the wife of Singapore's prime minister. So again - by what standard are you judging?

Finally, Hapag-Lloyd was surely not entirely free from blame, but one has to give them credit for being very quick and thourough with the implementation of an emergency plan. The recent profits are a good indicator herefore. My impression is that
« Last Edit: December 19, 2010, 10:30:01 AM by jan_t »

Offline Andreas Schlatterer

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Re: Hapag Lloyd orders four 13,200TEU Vessels from Hyundai Heavy Industries
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2010, 12:57:59 PM »
Hello Jan t

well spoken, I would not be able to explain it better. Hope it makes the whole thing for everybody understandable.

best regrads
capesize
Capesize

Offline Jens Boldt

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Re: Hapag Lloyd orders four 13,200TEU Vessels from Hyundai Heavy Industries
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2010, 01:02:03 PM »
Yes, a most interesting subject. Thanks for upgrading my rudimentary knowledge in this case.

Best regards,
Jens

 

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