MV Atlantic Vision

[Stephen Ings]

Only issue I see is a lack of seating.  She is probably best suited for Argentia as not everyone wants to buy a cabin.  If they were every to buy her I would pull out the second bar and that restaurant seating around they are replace it with seating, then if that spa is never to be used rip out all that as well and replace with seating. 

[Jarrod David]

I totally agree with you Stephen.I think she was chartered with Argentia in mind anyway.Their is all kinds of things they could do with her..Yes it did take a while to get the bugs worked out but I think things for the Vision are going alot smoother.

Take Care
Jarrod

[snocky]

Stephen & Jarrod, i totally agree with you. This ship in no way suits average traveller on especially pab to north sydney run. Passengers are almost forced to occupy cabins at prices that are to expensive & to go to caffateria where prices are also to expensive. Snack bar leaves a lot to be desired & seating is totally inadequite.

[Gulfspan]

Factually she's not a bad ship..as a ship goes..
in reality ..shes the worst vessel ever to hit the gulf run from the perspective of a passenger..a family member of mine couldn't get on with his vehicle ,wife and three children unless they purchased one cabin and two berths..for a 6hr ferry ride!! this is ludacris...The Gulf run needs only basic transportation..back and forth ..this isn't a cruise line or the Vegas strip..

The Caribou and Smallwood ..

these ships have model's with data coming out the wazzo, were purpose built and designed for the gulf run. The 4 MAK Krupp's are out of their life span and should be replaced with 2 Wartsilla's. Both have never had a major refit.The hull's are sound..
After CN Marine handed over the ferry service to Ottawa..the push came to cut cost on maintainence..with bonus's and kick back's..Everything about these vessel's is a result of the bunch in Ottawa and the restruant manager's(Marine Atlantic brass) cutting corners..
.. aftermarket parts used to rebuild you get what you pay for ..its not like the parts cant be bought OEM ..
These vessels are Mid life in there service..they just need a refit
..but nope we'll take another ship ..knock 12 feet of..they are still on charter so ..rest assured we will end up paying top dollar for a refit ..to Stena's standards..then ..ohh pay the going rate for such a vessel after 5 years ..this isnt a rent to own gig here ..


The Vision had a long refit..
Of course.. the owners flew in to take part in the refit ..everything was brought back to its operational standards even the stuff that was worn out and didnt get replaced before Marine Atlantic took possesion..The owners hit the jack pot here ..a crown corp with bags of money run by people who couldnt organise a one man parade..with a fleet so neglected and tattered..Hey if The Vision does go back ..they are not going to accept less that they sent here .. fix it all now and with Marine Atlantics track record ..why wouldnt they ..

By the way ..where does one find what it cost to refit the vision this time ..its tax payer money on a crown corp..wheres the detail''s inculding modifying the dock to accomodate the Vision ..
make you chill ..40million was the last number i herd

End Game
It will have been cheaper to refit the Gulfspan carriers than to have gotten these two ships under charter..given Marine Atlantic's track record on cheapening maintainence rest assured ..

[kasco]

Super Fast 1X, Stena Trader and Stena Traveller were all built to serve the commercial industry. The Caribou and the Smallwood were built as passenger vessels. This explains the difficulty to adapt these three vessels to serve the passenger and commercial market both.


Kasco

[Jarrod David]

Great input Gulfspan and Kasco.I would have loved to be a fly on the wall when all these decisions were made.Just to hear the debate going back and forth.I think that has been the big issue for Marine Atlantic is the maintainance.To me it seems they never have the time to do it the way they would like.What vessels could you use to replace them?Would a short term charter be available?It always seemed they were rushed through their maintainance periods to get back in service.I wonder with better maintainance schedules would the Caribou and smallwood lasted longer than they have.I think the issue came down to a matter of time and they did not have the time to build replacement vessels given the deterioration of the Caribou and Smallwood.They were spending more and more time with mechanical issues as well as the public pressure face due to these breakdowns.It is a tough question as to what is better Purchasing new vessels or long term charter.To me a long term charter would guarentee newer vessels in service and less mechanical issues,and I would hope less mechanical issues.It is going to be interesting how these 2 new vessels do on the NSYD-PAB run.And the Vision on the Argentia run.Time will tell.

Take care
Jarrod

[Gulfspan]

Hi Jarrod

not entirely correct in some points..
Caribou and Smallwood never got the maintenance ..simply because the money to do the maintenance was given back to Ottawa when the ships were newer and didn't need it ..Marine Atlantic would have been wiser to blow the money on the ships and get it right ..but when Ottawa dangles a big cash carrot (bonus)in front of them as a means to save money ..maintenance was the first to go

.. the nuts in Ottawa don't understand why and how the ships are costing so much to run ..Its quite simple save a million here that ends up costing 5 million down the road..

Smallwood needed a new crank shaft two years ago ..that Ottawa had to pay for because  Marine Atlantic decided to get it ground before they called Loyd's. the people doing the grinding (a firm from state side)..did as they were told and couldn't get a surface without getting past the case hardening..
Then they call Lloyd's who wont accept the claim because the end result was Marine Atlantic's fault..that's the mentality of these people there..they don't think..If loylds had made the call to grind it ..they would have been on the hook to replace it..saving the taxpayer's a few Million bones..
Geez that Smallwood is costing to much to maintain aint she?

Find anyone that was with Marine Atlantic when Marsh Engineering was looking after the rebuilds and inspection's..this wouldn't have happened ..but Marsh cost to much ,the maintenance and equipment inspections were over running maintenance cost that the Marine Atlantic didn't have money for because they had already given it back to Ottawa as un-necessary in the past..

[Trucker001]

 as yuo said Gulfspan ottawa ad the penny puinchers there couldnt win a bet on a 1 man ass kicking contest if it was only 1 man entered... they neglected the maintance on the smallwood and caribou.. for years they run them in the ground neglecting them...4  years ago caribou was supposed to go for its midlife refit and 2 years ago the smallwood was to go for its midlife but it also never went ... now marine atlantic and ottawa are trying to make it look like it was just the ships wore out and the smallwood with its crank and caribou both had to run all year with engines down so they werent as fast ..evenm in the current shape they are in i fine them better sea boats than the lief and nightmare aka vision.. 
  it was posted in the local newspapers that the 28th nov will be the last trip for the caribou .. I HOPE they DONT lay up the ship like they did the freighter where all the water pipes in the ship burst with not draining them and COSTING  them lots before it could sail again to its new owners..

 It amazes me that when Marine atlantic was having all the problems 2 years ago they figured out how to fix it after the big meeting in Halifax they deecided to HIRE 21 new managers to work on the problems hardly anyone with a real working knowledgwe of how ships run and what is needed to keep them in top shape... the smart(NOT) people in ottawa and at marine atlantic hq really need to unload the dead wood that run the ferry service starting from top down and look after the vessels

[Jarrod David]

Ahh money the root of all evil...

[kasco]

With all equipment, maintenance is required. With all equipment there is a limited lifespan. Vessels are no different. There comes a point that replacement is the answer. Cost to keep a aging vessel in service is not the only factor. New technology in ships design allows a company to offer the latest in safety and lower operating costs. Along with planned maintenance there should be a planned replacement program. At ten years a vessel should be changed out. The results are twofold. New vessels require less maintenance. New vessels suffer less breakdowns.The vessel being replaced will command top dollar on the used boat market.


Kasco


   

[Jacques Maillet]

Super Fast 1X, Stena Trader and Stena Traveller were all built to serve the commercial industry. The Caribou and the Smallwood were built as passenger vessels. This explains the difficulty to adapt these three vessels to serve the passenger and commercial market both.


Kasco

Just to clarify the MV Atlantic Vision (ex Superfast IX, It was built in Germany in 2002 as a fast ro-pax ferry between Zebrugge and Scotland, they added more cabins when she was brought to serve Finland and Estonia as well as Germany (that's why she has more cabins than lounge space!!!)  She was built as essentially a cruise ferry in Europe and should Marine Atlantic purchase the ship at the end of the agreement, I'm sure they'd put a major refit to the interior (most likely the a la carte restaurant and rear bar area could be seating space and bigger washrooms on deck 6 to cut down on waiting during the voyage) She is a higher capacity icebreaker than the Gulfspan ships and manoeuvers better in the ice than the Caribou for example.  She can be made into a perfect fit for the gulf run even if she isn't right now

[Jacques Maillet]

With all equipment, maintenance is required. With all equipment there is a limited lifespan. Vessels are no different. There comes a point that replacement is the answer. Cost to keep a aging vessel in service is not the only factor. New technology in ships design allows a company to offer the latest in safety and lower operating costs. Along with planned maintenance there should be a planned replacement program. At ten years a vessel should be changed out. The results are twofold. New vessels require less maintenance. New vessels suffer less breakdowns.The vessel being replaced will command top dollar on the used boat market.


Kasco

I agree with that Kasco!!!  Now, if the gov't would've done a vessel replacement program for the Digby - Saint John service!!!   Although I'd miss the ship a lot, the Princess of Acadia is getting too old to run that route. 
   

[Jacques Maillet]

Factually she's not a bad ship..as a ship goes..
in reality ..shes the worst vessel ever to hit the gulf run from the perspective of a passenger..a family member of mine couldn't get on with his vehicle ,wife and three children unless they purchased one cabin and two berths..for a 6hr ferry ride!! this is ludacris...The Gulf run needs only basic transportation..back and forth ..this isn't a cruise line or the Vegas strip..

The Caribou and Smallwood ..

these ships have model's with data coming out the wazzo, were purpose built and designed for the gulf run. The 4 MAK Krupp's are out of their life span and should be replaced with 2 Wartsilla's. Both have never had a major refit.The hull's are sound..
After CN Marine handed over the ferry service to Ottawa..the push came to cut cost on maintainence..with bonus's and kick back's..Everything about these vessel's is a result of the bunch in Ottawa and the restruant manager's(Marine Atlantic brass) cutting corners..
.. aftermarket parts used to rebuild you get what you pay for ..its not like the parts cant be bought OEM ..
These vessels are Mid life in there service..they just need a refit
..but nope we'll take another ship ..knock 12 feet of..they are still on charter so ..rest assured we will end up paying top dollar for a refit ..to Stena's standards..then ..ohh pay the going rate for such a vessel after 5 years ..this isnt a rent to own gig here ..


The Vision had a long refit..
Of course.. the owners flew in to take part in the refit ..everything was brought back to its operational standards even the stuff that was worn out and didnt get replaced before Marine Atlantic took possesion..The owners hit the jack pot here ..a crown corp with bags of money run by people who couldnt organise a one man parade..with a fleet so neglected and tattered..Hey if The Vision does go back ..they are not going to accept less that they sent here .. fix it all now and with Marine Atlantics track record ..why wouldnt they ..

By the way ..where does one find what it cost to refit the vision this time ..its tax payer money on a crown corp..wheres the detail''s inculding modifying the dock to accomodate the Vision ..
make you chill ..40million was the last number i herd

End Game
It will have been cheaper to refit the Gulfspan carriers than to have gotten these two ships under charter..given Marine Atlantic's track record on cheapening maintainence rest assured ..

I would've liked that way better than European replacements!!They're too new to be replaced now an MLU (mid-life upgrade) and regular maintenance would've been cheaper!!!  Oh well, politics at work!!

[Gulfspan]

With all equipment, maintenance is required. With all equipment there is a limited lifespan. Vessels are no different. There comes a point that replacement is the answer. Cost to keep a aging vessel in service is not the only factor. New technology in ships design allows a company to offer the latest in safety and lower operating costs. Along with planned maintenance there should be a planned replacement program. At ten years a vessel should be changed out. The results are twofold. New vessels require less maintenance. New vessels suffer less breakdowns.The vessel being replaced will command top dollar on the used boat market.


Kasco
  

Don't agree with all that ,sorry
Limited Lifespan ..compared to aircraft ,trains, tugboats and other vessel's..these vessels are midlife..the space shuttles were older with more mileage..
New technology?.. these newer Stena liners don't even sport Azipods..twin variable screw coupled to Man diesels..nothing new there...the bulbous bow goes back as far as Yamato and the Japanese empire..55-60 year old technology.. Yes the newer Ro-Ro super's have ice breaking capability that allows the bulb to ride under busting the ice under its own weight ..of which the Smallwood and Caribou are in league ..the Finnjet also sported this when she was built in 1977..nothing new there in ice breaking capability..
The hulls are an existing design that goes back decades with tweaks to allow for draft,breath,length,HP,and tonnage..nothing new..

Other companies around the would continually flip vessels in/our commission the next latest and greatest, but then when a half dozen companies are in a pee'n contest for foot and lane traffic ..with the high volume of transport...the money is there to re-coup this and it make's sense to get rid of a vessel after 10 years just to keep up with the next guy..Which is how we got the Ericson ..beat half to death .been run aground...and we got her cheap ...and paid almost as much as another Caribou to fix her up ...Companies over in Euro ..dont get rid of a vessel thats making them money ,regardless of age ..they get rid of them because they are junk ..