Author Topic: MSC Monterey in trouble off Newfoundland  (Read 34752 times)

Offline snocky

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Re: MSC Monterey in trouble off Newfoundland
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2013, 08:53:13 PM »
Steve where are you located? Last i heard you were in BLANC SABLON. Long way from ST. MARY,S BAY.

Offline Captain Ted

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Re: MSC Monterey in trouble off Newfoundland
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2013, 09:32:55 PM »
Snocky
I crossed the NA at least 25-30 times in my carrier, also in the storm times. One time for a 6.5 day crossing we needed 9.5 days with a 2500 TEU ship. Look up my storm pics :-) (Cap Flinders for example)
This time of the year I really have no big interest to be there !!!!

NOW!!!,,,if we could get rid of the sailors,,how safe shipping would be !!!!!!!!

Offline Captain Ted

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Re: MSC Monterey in trouble off Newfoundland
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2013, 09:36:08 PM »
Jens

Flaminia was a fire, this is a crack in the hull, by the nature of both total difference However seemingly serious enough that the Capt decided to get passengers off by choppers
 
NOW!!!,,,if we could get rid of the sailors,,how safe shipping would be !!!!!!!!

Offline Cornelia Klier

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Re: MSC Monterey in trouble off Newfoundland
« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2013, 08:32:41 AM »
Oh no, not again !!!

There was the MSC Napoli cracking... before, MSC had also a ship, that was diverting itself into two parts. (I think, the site where you can find Report and photos of this, and also other accident is www.cargolaw.com)

Bigger ships, with not flexible enough construction you think. New, not yet proofed designs of ships. Series of These ships are built in Korea and such.

But I wonder one Thing:

Maersk is the biggest Container shipping Company. NOT YET any of their ships did crack !!

Why MSC is more prone than other companies for that ??

It can't be just the ships design, or the Age of ships, because These series of ships are used by various companies, Maersk also has many older ships chartered.

So, I wonder - and it is really just a guess - whether such is also a case of continous non-careful cargo planning within certain companies ???

I am courious, Folks what you think !

Greetings,

Cornelia



Offline spotti

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Re: MSC Monterey in trouble off Newfoundland
« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2013, 09:23:18 AM »
Cargo planning/stowage by the container lines is sometimes hit by shippers not declaring the correct weight of the containers, - and the weight declared is probably not below the actual weight.
As for MOL Comfort a Japanese government institution has determined that the stress on the hull was only at 67% of the "design stress level". They will now take a closer look at the declared weight of the containers.
... and, Cornelia, Maersk ships also crack, even if they do not break. Emma Maersk at Suez
is a sad story of multiple errors and desigh flaws by all players, ... except by the sailors/crew.
Niels

Offline James Henton

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Re: MSC Monterey in trouble off Newfoundland
« Reply #20 on: December 31, 2013, 11:50:17 AM »
You are thinking of MSC Carla, Cornelia, in the mid-90's. 

Offline Marcel Giroux

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Re: MSC Monterey in trouble off Newfoundland
« Reply #21 on: December 31, 2013, 02:34:11 PM »
The MSC MONTEREY has moved well inside St Marys bay near Admirals Beach. The Globe and Mail reported that Transport Canada said the ship has been ordered to stay at an anchorage just east of Little Colinet Island, which is in eastern Newfoundland

Offline Captain Ted

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Re: MSC Monterey in trouble off Newfoundland
« Reply #22 on: December 31, 2013, 02:54:21 PM »
@Cornelia
Maersk has the same problems with cracks than others have too. They have however a better after construction support system. The first E-class had a lot after-fixes, because of cracks. I remember in 2007 when I was in R-dam inbound and one of the big ones at anchor, I think it was the Emma, and the pilot told me he was there the day before and he heard that
techs were a/b and worked on cracks. Has a lot to do with public relations and Maersk is good on that. Others are not as good or don,t care that much. When I was on the container ships, cracks were the norm, mostly not dangerous usually or not serious in that matter that the ship was threatened to come apart but fixable and specially then when it was right away attended too which we did. Some don,t.
But one thing I firmly believe that we did not see the end of it.
There is also another view to the whole cracking and the causes. How the companies let for example Captain,s handle bad weather situations.

Some companies are known when ships falling out of schedules then the Capt,s head is on the chopping block, ergo, they go high speeds as long as possible.   You won,t believe what kind of inquiries from charterer offices coming to a ship when the vessel is delayed by bad weather. Asking for more speed is the least. Another thing is the distribution of cargoe,s during loading and discharging. (also when now the ships go slower in general)
Or the experience of crews. When I was young I hardly can remember that I had a Capt under 40, today it is not unusual to be under 30 !!!! No time to gain experience.

Construction another reason, I was as AB on a ship, the engineer in charge during construction sailed with us the first 2 month. He inspected everyday something and then again and wrote down. Today that is not done anymore because construction is planned by computers and not experienced engineers !!!

Also, the confinement to construction plans. Every change from the plans cost extra money and usually big. That,s the reason why you can be on a ship and see something bad and you sail another ship, which is 3 years younger, but the same class and the SAME problem. i.e. problems are not really fixed but more ignored.

And, last but not least, the majority of ships builded in the last 10 years had one thing in common: to be builded as quick as possible. I saw ships where welding crews were still aboard during the maiden voyage !!!!  

In ports
The bending and shear moments are usually ignored, can not even be controlled by ships side because you have only the arrival condition and departure condition , there is no in-between condition. Impossible to do when a ship is discharged by 6 gantry cranes at the same time. However, I can say, sailed in charter for CSAV/HAPAG/H-SUED/MSC and also Maersk, the H-Sued and Maersk doing a better job than others with the planning of loading and discharging. I attribute just that a lot to the crack problems, not understanding when and how to reduce at sea and loading/discharging in ports.
For both are no examples to go by. These big ships at sea, force 7 is not even felt beside
that the waves still hitting the ship, and force 7 with good swell produces easy 3-5m waves,,thats enough to make material i.e. steel brittle over time in combination with the cargo operations
There are a lot of factors coming together, which it is, nobody ever can tell,,most probably it is a combination of all
NOW!!!,,,if we could get rid of the sailors,,how safe shipping would be !!!!!!!!

Offline Cornelia Klier

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Re: MSC Monterey in trouble off Newfoundland
« Reply #23 on: December 31, 2013, 05:58:00 PM »
@ theo thank you for such extensive and detailed explanation to bring some light into this :-)

Offline sandygates

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Re: MSC Monterey in trouble off Newfoundland
« Reply #24 on: December 31, 2013, 06:27:35 PM »
I wonder how many of these containership cracks were caused by the vessels being loaded incorrectly. I remember one shipping bod admitting that he once sent one out with a negative gm

Offline tvtech

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Re: MSC Monterey in trouble off Newfoundland
« Reply #25 on: December 31, 2013, 08:12:48 PM »
Captain Ted, you are the voice of reason in all of this.

You have the experience to comment accurately on why things go wrong.

From one Theo to another..have a brilliant New Year and thanks for your insight into all this stuff.

All the best
tvtech (Theo)


Offline Captain Ted

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Re: MSC Monterey in trouble off Newfoundland
« Reply #26 on: December 31, 2013, 09:32:04 PM »
@ Cornelia/tvtech,,, you guys are welcome
@ Sandy,, if the Capt let that happen to him, what one can say. I had situations
not with negative stability but with over stowing by weights (means when a slot can hav 6 container and the tanktop {{hatch-cover}} can have 50 tons and the weight of all 6 together
is higher. Then nowadays a alarm is shown in the stabi-pc, visual and also,if not disabled by sound. I had that a few times and send an email to the planner to change it, what planners tend to do shift one container somewhere else , but then you might have too much there. Which means,,, If you don,t stay on top of it, you screwed !!!!  Because once you sign the finished stow plan, even if you honestly overlooked it, the restow goes to the ships account. I one case , I saw it early enough and they had to restow 54 container,,all on chart account, you can imagine the planner did not like me anymore.  In another I did not see that a reefer container was stowed in the 2nd tier on deck on the outside slot, I left it there,,because chart said,, restow on ships account, 4 restows would have been,,
nothing happened to the container, so I was lucky and it was only a short trip from R-dam to Le Harve and we had to move it there again anyhow.
But if you let it happen once, you can not back out anymore, so staying on top is the half rent !!!!
NOW!!!,,,if we could get rid of the sailors,,how safe shipping would be !!!!!!!!

Offline Michael

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Re: MSC Monterey in trouble off Newfoundland
« Reply #27 on: December 31, 2013, 09:44:23 PM »
I'm afraid mis-declared weights are a big problem and MSC seem to be near the top of the table, boxes on the manifest are declared as 25t but come out of the hold as 32-33t. We twin pick on some cranes up to 50t yet the cranes are always cutting out, it's always the crane at fault <sigh> but when we insist the boxes are taken to the weight bridge they are all over weight. We now calibrate the cranes almost monthly due to the increase in mis-declared weights as the paperwork often does not match the real weight of the box and that puts a big strain on land side and vessel planning, there's too much trust in the paperwork.

The worst I had to extract was a 15t and a 32t twin pick, it got half way out of the hold and ripped through the cell guides and jammed because it was so unbalanced, ended up cutting the cell guides to get the load out.

To be fair it's not totally the carriers or planners fault, it's more down to the agents or those loading the boxes, with box costs dependent on weight then it's no wonder some shippers are overloading their boxes and trying to get away with a cheaper tariff and without dynamic weighting during loading, it's anyone's guess what's in the box. Once a box is loaded and arrives at the port in gate there's little or no weight check through out the whole loading process.

Capt Ted is correct, I think we will see more of these incidents in the coming years as vessels get older and the growing trend of overweight boxes increases.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2014, 01:47:38 PM by Michael »

Offline tvtech

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Re: MSC Monterey in trouble off Newfoundland
« Reply #28 on: December 31, 2013, 10:01:34 PM »
Hi Captain Ted

That is exactly why you are still on top of the game. You have the experience. You have the knowledge. You can see things possibly going wrong...so you try to prevent bad situations.

Not try to ignore them and sail on...

tvtech

Offline tvtech

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Re: MSC Monterey in trouble off Newfoundland
« Reply #29 on: December 31, 2013, 10:19:16 PM »
Thanks Michael

Good post and a brilliant 2014 for you.

Lovely to see answers from the Guys in the know. Not people guessing.

tvtech

 

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