London Gateway

[Alan Green]

So, the first cranes are on their way but what major lines will they be unloading ?

In his post of August 2008, John Jones suggested that China Shipping (CSCL)had signed up and would therefore be moving from Felixstowe.

Are there any other thoughts and/or speculations ?

Given that DP World also operate the expanding container port in Southampton thus ruling out the likes of CMA CGM, OOCL, NYK, etc, and that any lines not calling in the UK are unlikely to transfer services to a UK port of call from mainland northern europe - being happy to rely on existing feeder services, is it correct to suggest that we should look to Felixstowe and/or Thamesport for the candidates ?

[samson46]

DP World has made statements to the effect that it sees Felixstowe as the main competitor to Thames Gateway and and that it will be seeking to take traffic from the Suffolk port.
It has, however, been estimated that, come the end of the current recession there will be a shortage of container port capacity in the UK and that there will be sufficient traffic to keep both ports busy, as well as Tilbury, which is actually planning expansion.

[Niall Magner]

Which ZPMC submersible is doing tthe journey?

[chrisg46]

DP World's London Gateway (Thames Gateway is completely different project) will have no choice but to target HPUK's Felixstowe and Thamesport traffic, because only those and DP World's own Southampton terminals are the UK's terminals capable of handling maximum draft mainline ULCVs. They have no-one else to target!

One of the two most important factors to remember about who'll be using the port is that no line presently using another terminal operator will declare an intention to leave until the last possible moment - who wants to upset a port which could very easily make your business life more difficult than it already needs to be? Lines who say "we're sticking" will get the best service, while lines that say "we're off" will drop to the bottom of the pile.

The other factor to remember is that shipping lines are not always the people who determine where their vessels go. If sufficient cargo owners - the people who pay the shipping lines - say we want our boxes delivered to Gateway, then shipping lines will have to listen, and do what they think best to satisfy their customers. Don't forget that Gateway is claiming users will save return road transport costs of around

[chrisg46]

Taking this another step, I'll be fascinated to see how it shapes up.

I did a little more research; LG themselves said that they don't have dates for further berth openings, but I got comments from some port and shipping pundits saying that they think it could open a second and perhaps third berth relatively easily and quickly if needed to handle traffic.

I rather suspect that one or two lines may alter a rotation or two for a period, or add a call to LG, just to test the temperature. The worrying thing for DP World, I imagine, will be if any of their present Southampton callers fancy a change.

[Riverman2903]

As Gateway gets into its stride, I think the competition between DP World and HPUK will become seriously fierce - I think other, smaller terminals like Tilbury might easily get damaged in the crossfire. I've also got a suspicion that Thamesport may not survive in its present form, at least.

If I was a pundit and also a betting man (I am neither!) then my money would be on Thamesport suffering the most from Gateway. Thamesport is probably the most 'unconnected' container port, certainly in the South East. It only has a single railway line and poor road connections. Given the limited number of ship calls and connecting train services I would be very concerned if I was Thamesport. Maybe they will re-invent themselves and find a niche, I hope so.

[samson46]

Thamesport lost a lot of traffic when Hapag-Lloyd took over the CP Ships Group and moved the CP services to Southampton (only to have to bring some of them back to Thamesport when they caused congestion at the Hampshire port).  Thamesport does, however, have the advantage of a deal with Evergreen whereby the Taiwanese line is guaranteed never to have to wait for a berth at the Isle of Grain port. Evergreen is given priority so that the other lines would have to wait.
The single-line rail link is of absolutely no significance in handicapping Thamesport (though the last few road miles into the port is a little bit tortuous for the truck drivers). The freight-only Hundred of Hoo Branch has plenty of capacity to handle a much higher volume of container traffic than at present. In fact it was handling considerably more trains per day than now before the current global recession set in.  Furthermore, and unless things have changed since I was involved in the business, Felixstowe is also connected to the rail network by a single line.
The battle, I think will be between London Gateway and Felixstowe.
As I already said in this thread, there is still an underlying shortfall in container port capacity in the UK. Come the end of the present downturn, there will be plenty of traffic to keep all the present ports going quite happily.

[Riverman2903]

Furthermore, and unless things have changed since I was involved in the business, Felixstowe is also connected to the rail network by a single line.

They are doing a lot of work on the upgrade, and although it's not been been doubled yet, it remains on the 'wish list'. The building of a new curve to avoid sending trains via London or indeed reversing in Ipswich yard will also reduce journey times. And although the Isle of Grain branch is capable of a lot more, the problems arise when they reach the North Kent Main Line and the lack of capacity to fit additional freight trains paths, especially with the crossrail spoil trains going into Northfleet. I hope Thamesport survives but in terms of all other UK Container ports, it's communications are poor (unless they DO build the new London Airport on the river with it's associated road and rail links!!!)

[Alan Green]

I believe the initial crane deliveries are arriving approx. 2nd March 2013 with Zhen Hua 26.

It is interesting to see the discussion unfurl,and of course the forthcoming developments of additional berths at Southampton and Liverpool can be put into the mix.

I understand that there was a mass meeting called at Felixstowe for last Tuesday evening (29.01.13) = It would be interesting to know the reason.

[DAVE NINNIM]

Don't forget Thames-port is owned by the same owners of Felixstowe.
Hyundai have just pulled out of Thames-port and have gone to Southampton. They say this is for a six month rest-bite whilst the port make some upgrades, non of which are yet in progress. A little coincidental timing I feel!

[Alan Green]

Just noted that London Gateway is showing as expecting an arrival on 17.02.13:
The 249 metre Self Discharging Bulk Carrier - Yeoman Bridge - IMO 8912302.

"17/02   1030 YEOMAN BRIDGE ARMAC BHS GLENSANDA LONDON GATEWAY Pilot Reqd".

[chrisg46]

Just steaming past Aldeburgh at 8 knots . .

[DAVE NINNIM]

MV Meri pictured on the 25th Feb, inbound with straddle carriers for the Gateway, just after taking the pilot at he NE Spit.

[Jonathan Simpson]

Zhen Hua 26, expected Sunk Pilot staion at 28/02/13 09:00

http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/shipdetails.aspx?MMSI=477177900

[DAVE NINNIM]

No longer going in on Thursday. Pilot onboard at 0500 at the sunk pilot station on Friday (1st), to be confirmed.