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Author Topic: COPYRIGHT  (Read 35353 times)
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kensmith
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« on: February 04, 2012, 01:00:22 pm »

Changes have been made to the rules and guidelines on Copyright and can be seen at the following FAQs and have been approved by the website owner.

http://www.shipspotting.com/support/faq.php?category=Site%20standards%20for%20all%20photos 1- Item 10

http://www.shipspotting.com/support/faq.php?category=Uploading%20photos%20guidance#78 Item 7

This has been an ongoing problem and it is felt necessary to add some additional information to the guidelines and to also advise members on how to deal with the question of Copyright.

If you purchase a photograph at a flee market or they are given to you it does not automatically give you the copyright ownership especially if there is a stamp giving a name of owner on it, even if  nothing is on the card it has been taken by someone else, if you upload this type of material to the website without any authorisation you could be in breach of copyright law.

Copyright laws vary from country to country and ligation can be very expensive so please be careful when uploading this kind of material, if you have permission to use them then please always give that information with the upload, many members already do this and we are grateful for having those details.

This is a guide to the UK copyright laws
       http://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/copyright/p01_uk_copyright_law

If a photograph is uploaded and considered to be Copyright Infringement the member will be contacted for confirmation.

Kind regards
Ken

« Last Edit: February 05, 2012, 08:51:17 am by Ken Smith » Report to moderator   Logged
stantheman
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« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2012, 09:06:21 pm »

Mr. Smith
Maybe you can tell me if I missed something or is there a problem I do not know about with the Website.
The News Stories on the page haven't changed for almost a week.
Is there some problem?
Stan
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Pieter_Inpijn
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« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2012, 08:27:00 am »

I do not understand it any more.

Now it is said that photo’s found at a fleemarket can not be used either. The admin points to the copyright under UK-law: Typographical arrangement of published editions: 25 years from the end of the calendar year in which the work was first published. That is clear, but my fleemarket pic’s (without any name of the maker) clearly from before WW2 were deleted within the hour.

In which country is the main server of this website positioned or in which country is the website legally situated? Does the copyright-law from that country apply to our pictures?

Now I have the Netherlands nationality. Under Netherlands law copyright is valid till seventy years after the maker died. Do my pictures and my uploads follow that rule because I am a Netherlands citizen?

This site has started as a showcase for shipping photo’s made by shipspotters. Recently, a member is uploading a lot of wonderfull old steamers from the Library of Congress. The admin says in a personal PM to me that it is okay because they are in the public domain and declared free of copyright. Fine, but does this mean that we can copy all free pictures about ships from the internet. And in fact make a mirror of all shipping pictures already placed on the internet and use server space for pictures that are already available for everybody in the internet? The name of the site is Shipspotting and not “Worldwide Register Of Ships Since The Early Days Of Photography”?

That copyright issue is starting to be rather confusing. Just some thoughts and in no means I want to attack the very good work of the webmaster and admins.

Regards, Pieter
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Tuomas Romu
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« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2012, 09:02:31 am »

A photograph is not a "typographical arrangement", but an artistic work which is protected for 70 years after the death of the author, or 70 years after publication if the author is unknown. Still, it should be enough for pre-WW2 photos. Perhaps there was another reason?
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Jens Boldt
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« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2012, 09:16:21 am »

I really do agree with Pieter.

The only thing I always understood when uploading photos here is that I must not breach German copyright laws (as I am German). But for the rest? I have no idea... These are interesting questions Pieter raised about the position of the main server and where the website is legally situated.

And I also think that recently the site turned quite nostalgic (again I must say). I always like to look at a good photo of a ship from way back when, but like Pieter I really don't see the necessity of uploading photos here which are already available on the internet for everybody's use.

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Jens
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BobS
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« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2012, 09:32:25 am »

There are, I believe, international conventions under which certain aspects of copyright law in one country will be upheld in another. As I remember it from my days as a journalist, there are some exceptions, ifs and buts but, in general, if you blatantly copy something from another country, you can be pursued and sued for breach of copyright no matter where you are.
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davidships
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« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2012, 11:59:03 am »

Pieter Inpyn wrote
Quote
This site has started as a showcase for shipping photo’s made by shipspotters. Recently, a member is uploading a lot of wonderfull old steamers from the Library of Congress. The admin says in a personal PM to me that it is okay because they are in the public domain and declared free of copyright. Fine, but does this mean that we can copy all free pictures about ships from the internet. And in fact make a mirror of all shipping pictures already placed on the internet and use server space for pictures that are already available for everybody in the internet? The name of the site is Shipspotting and not “Worldwide Register Of Ships Since The Early Days Of Photography”?

No problem with the copyright policy.  But this highlights an even more fundamental issue about Shipspotting.com.  Pieter is right about the purpose of the site and I cannot see the point of using it to create galleries of recycled photographs from other sources.  There are other sites for that, and clearly some of those are the sources of images being reposted here.  I see on another thread that this is under review.  In my view it should not be allowed.  All photos should be taken by the member or be privately taken photos specifically entrusted to his/her care.  Photos taken by others whether of private, commercial or public authority origin should not be accepted.

David
« Last Edit: February 06, 2012, 12:15:52 pm by davidships » Report to moderator   Logged
Gordy
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« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2012, 02:57:10 am »

Thanks for your positive comments Chris, if I had to look at box boats or flush deck tankers all day long I dont think I would be here but thanks to the the people behind the scenes and the wonderful diverse membership we are presented with an awesome collection of pics and posts from all era's and times.

Every one should be congratulated for making the forum what it is, a fantastic place to be a part of. I have only one thing to say in regards to older posts being labelled ancient. I must be ancient too, I sailed on a working vessel (not a museum piece) that was built in 1895, another one that was built in 1919 and still another from 1921. I worked on these so they were a reality for me. Most people are interested in maritime history and I am one of them. We got to where we are today through the evolution of these old vessels.

To bring the point home more, I sailed on 5 vessels, old steamers that were built before the second world war and at the beginning. Three of them came under attack during the dark days of ww2 so I gather from that according to one particular persons comments that I am ancient too, hahaha, thats just too unbelievable to merit comment  lol.

I love all the ship posts, I lean more towards the older vessels because I was a career seaman and I sailed on a lot of ships of that vintage. I love seeing what Chris Howell posts, along with Malcolm Cranfield, Doctor Onions and a few others whose names dont readily come to mind so, keep posting them guys, they are fantastic photo's of a time a long time ago. The majority of the comments are in the affirmative for the old ships so that speaks for itself, no more comments needed. Top stuff.

Cheers and GB

Gordy
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Pieter_Inpijn
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« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2012, 07:29:30 am »

An answer to mr Chris Howell: I thank you for your ancient photo’s and I know that it takes a lot of time to clean up an old negative. Sure I do enjoy looking at old ships much more than to the modern tanker, containership or vehiclecarrier, or the 1234th picture of Queen Mary on this site. I started making photo’s of ships in the 1970’s and had much more fun in those days with my camera than nowadays.
But my point is: the site started for active shipspotters and the rule in the early days was: only photo’s made by yourself or with permission of the owner. In the last years we had some difficult discussions about copyright and things like “public domain” does not make it any easier. In the Netherlands we had some legal cases with people using small logo’s and pictures on their own website, found in the “public domain” but still secretly under copyright protection.
I have no objection that this site shows many old vessels, but the rules / boundaries of the copyright issue are not clear anymore to me and (it seems) to other members. I hope that you will continue with showing “the oldies”.
Regards, Pieter
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Mr. DOT
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« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2012, 02:19:53 am »

There is a group on Facebook calling itself 'Lovers of Ocean Liners'.  Have a look around that site and you will see hundreds of images 'borrowed' from Shipspotting.com, including some of my own.  In all cases no credit is given to the photographer, or this site. 

One of the chief contributors of 'borrowed' photos is an administrator there called Kipfer Fox.  He and others on that site seem to feel that this practice is quite acceptable.  I don't think so.
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Robert Smith
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« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2012, 09:53:56 pm »

I took a look at this Facebook club and find there are quite a lot of pictures taken from Shipspotting without credits whatsoever. Also, prints from books are included etc.
Unacceptable !

Rgds,
Rob.

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ChasB46
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« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2012, 08:39:22 am »

And what can be done? Ziltch ..as has been stated many times before if you upload your pictures and they are good (no rubbish on Shipspotting???) then expect them to be ripped off as there are no sanctions. Either get over it, or keep your pictures at home.
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Trev
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« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2012, 11:18:09 am »

As I make a living out of photography there are many things that you can do.

First of all I suggest a polite email / message to the person / group concerned requesting that you are credited or that the photograph is removed from their site. Remembering to keep a copy for yourself if it is needed later.

If the first message to them has no effect then I suggest sending another one off to them, including a message that legal advice will be sort if your images stay on their site.

Finally take legal advice and go through the courts. I have taken 2 people to court for copyright infringment and have recieved good payouts.

It isn't just a simple courtesy to credit the photographer, this is in fact international law and could result in legal action being taken against you.

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Gordy
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« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2012, 08:49:34 am »

Thanks Mr Dot and Robert, I dont mind who takes my pics, but I know some people like to at least to be recognized for their efforts, its not a nice thing to do. I know my late fathers pics are posted all over the net without permission, I dont think he'd be happy about it if he was still around.

Cheers and GB

Gordy
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« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2012, 05:35:00 am »

If anyone wants to observe a very silly situation, take a look at the FaceBook group "Lovers of the Ocean Liners".

Their leader "Kipfer Fox" made a habit of rapid-fire posting of many many photos, with absolutely no regard for acknowledging the source.   I'm not whining about copyright, I am laughing about Mr. Fox's inability to do basic research and his inability to post photos in a classy and intelligent manner.

Anyways, so this poster-of-many-photos Mr. Fox has apparently been banned by Facebook, for copyright issues.    I think that's hilarious.

And what's even more funny is the loud rhetoric on that Facebook page about member betrayal and about that site being "the best site on Facebook".   hahaha, the arrogance is quite silly.

But seriously, it shows how shoddy posting (ie. with no efforts to research a photo's photographer and source) makes a website and people look amateur and immature.
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Mike Bonkowski, Nanaimo BC.
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