Author Topic: Ship details: is anyone interested?  (Read 13725 times)

Bob Scott

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Ship details: is anyone interested?
« on: May 04, 2010, 01:07:32 AM »
Is it just me? Am I some kind of one-off weirdo because I am interested in details about a ship, particularly who owns and/or operates it?
Why is it that only a tiny minority of photo-posters bother to tell us by whom the ship in their photo is operated? What is your interest? Is it ships or just photos of them?
And it is not just on this site but on others that this seems to be so.
The (newish) owners of this site have been advocating the inclusion of such details as MMSI numbers and call-signs which - in my view, anyway - are of little or no importance or relevance. Yet there is nary a mention of the ships' owners/managers/operators, some details of which are still freely (ie gratis) available from Equasis and some other sites - so there's no excuse that the info can't be found.
People just can't be bothered providing details. It will hamper them in their quest to be top posters, perhaps!
If you don't provide any details of the ships in your photos, and I don't know the vessels, I, for one, probably won't bother to look at them properly so you won't score many 'hits' from me.
But then I am some kind of one-off, weirdo, info-freak, aren't I?

Offline E. Vroom

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Re: Ship details: is anyone interested?
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2010, 04:30:37 AM »
Yes, you are a rare species Bob,
but we are glad to have you :-) .Will think of it next time.

Offline Brent

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Re: Ship details: is anyone interested?
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2010, 09:16:22 AM »
Hi Bob

I'm with you and like to read plenty of detail on the subject and it doesn't have to mean owners, charters, or cargo origin, think at least a photo date, location and maybe pertinent info the poster may know about the subject would be a welcome addition. Many shots could be seen in a better light with a bit of extra text, from what I recall the new site minimises this requirement which a shame, especially as photographers may well have gleaned some interesting comment in the course of the outing. After being in this game for some time one gets a handle on the shipping scene and learn where to glean interesting snippets to post. We live in hope.

Cheers

Brent
...

Offline Allan RO

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Re: Ship details: is anyone interested?
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2010, 12:30:38 PM »
Hi Bob

I'm entirely with you on this one.    Some posters still can not be bothered to fill in even the IMO or date/place of photos.   Both must be mandatory.  And any pics. submitted without the latter should be deleted immediately because as a record they are useless.

Allan

Bob Scott

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Re: Ship details: is anyone interested?
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2010, 12:53:06 PM »
Thanks, Brent and Allan,
It's nice to know one is not entirely the voice crying in the wilderness!

Ken,
You are quite right that it is up to the member but surely, since he is probably having to consult Equasis for the (allegedly) mandatory info like the IMO number, it is not too much to suggest that he includes some of the other info that is staring out at him from the Equasis page.
I wouldn't be expecting a full tech-spec of the ship (it would be nice, though); but I would like to see some tonnage(s) mentioned and, ideally, something about who runs the ship.
I do recognise, though, that members who swamp the site with four, five or six pics of each ship that passes them might find it onerous to have to include details with every one

Offline Fred Vloo

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Re: Ship details: is anyone interested?
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2010, 03:22:50 PM »
Hi Bob,
I agree some people give almost no info. However owners change all the time. If you want to upload more then one photo of a ship, just give a backspace after the first upload and you can upload another one without copy/paste technique.
Cheers Fred

Offline E. Vroom

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Re: Ship details: is anyone interested?
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2010, 07:09:30 PM »
Hi Bob,

Have a look here,  I think this will be my new standard. Equasis data including ships management data. I didn't take much longer and it didn't hurt either :-)

http://www.shipspotting.com/modules/myalbum/photo-1105692-GRAIN+EXPRESS

Offline Gerolf Drebes

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Re: Ship details: is anyone interested?
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2010, 07:34:17 PM »
Hi Bob,
interesting thread from you.
In general I am with you. I like to have as well to have the data of the vessels, the most important is date of built and tonnage and the history of the ship, which I always put in my postings.
But with the owner, manager,...... owner I have often problems.
Like for example a photo I will post during the next weeks the bulker Tufty.
Sea-Web is distinguishing between Group Owner, Operator, Manager, Registerd Owner, DOC. And for every column you find a different name.
Tufty for example has:
Group Owner          Navarone SA
Operator                 Canfornav Inc.
Manager                 Navarone SA
Registered Owner    Taboga Shg. Co Ltd.
DOC                       Navarone SA Panama
First I still do not know, what DOC means, and then you find at least 3 different companys, sometimes all are different. All these companys do not say anything ot me, and from Seaweb I cannot find out, what is the real company behind the vessel. So why disturbing the others which such informations. How I loved the good old years, when it was really easy to find the companies behind the ships, without looking into Lloyds registers and getting confused by so many different companies mentioned.
For this I do not post any company names.
I hope you understand me a bit.
Gerolf
......

Bob Scott

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Re: Ship details: is anyone interested?
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2010, 07:43:13 PM »
Well done, Ed
You could make it even easier by simply stating:

Bob Scott

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Re: Ship details: is anyone interested?
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2010, 08:25:10 PM »
Hi Gerolf,
Although Sea-Web is excellent and I miss it now that my free subscription has run out, it does sometimes make things more complicated than need be, by giving all these operators, charterers, managers and document holders, etc.
In the case of your bulker TUFTY, Navarone SA of Piraeus is the name that matters and members who do not have access to Sea-Web can see this fact from Equasis, with even more proof available  if they use the link to Germanischer Lloyd.
As I am sure you are well aware, Greek shipowners traditionally register each their ships to the ownership of its own, one-ship company. I disagree with you when you say it used to be easier in the past to discern their owners operators and managers. Then, the registered owner was often the only name that ever appeared in the normal registers like LR and LSI and it was quite difficult to prove that it was, say,  one of the Popadopalopoulos Group

Offline John Jones

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Re: Ship details: is anyone interested?
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2010, 10:23:12 PM »
Bob,

I agree with you entirely, a bit of info adds purpose and interest to a shot. Your submissions are always a case in point, older ships were easier to pin down in terms of ownership and by their very nature often had an interesting history. Its the less easy to look up snippets that make a shot.

But I am more sceptical about people just copying and pasting from sources such as Equasis for contemporary photographs. As long as the IMO No., Name, Date and Place of photograph are quoted we can look it up on there for ourselves if interested. Ownership is often hard to define these days, consists of several tiers and is something of a moveable feast. The ownership on the date the picture was taken can soon change.
The example of 'Grain Express' is a good one. It has not been mentioned that the actual parent owner is Excel Maritime Carriers. It depends to what level you wish to take it.
Regards
John J.
Any views expressed in the forum are my own personal opinions and are not to be taken as those of members of the admin team or of the site owners.

Offline John Jones

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Re: Ship details: is anyone interested?
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2010, 10:30:29 PM »
....and I would maintain that 'TUFTY' is in fact a CANFORNAV ship. So there you go, different angles already! :-)
Regards
John J.
Any views expressed in the forum are my own personal opinions and are not to be taken as those of members of the admin team or of the site owners.

Bob Scott

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Re: Ship details: is anyone interested?
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2010, 10:40:58 PM »
Hi, John
I would maintain that Canfornav is a charterer! I would say that, like Gerolf and his Sea-Web, you have access to too much info! Much more than we poor amateurs.
Cheers
Bob

Offline Peter Grunberg

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Re: Ship details: is anyone interested?
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2010, 03:54:09 AM »
Gerolf,

DOC means Document of Compliance holder  - usually the same as the technical manager

Peter

Offline Peter Grunberg

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Re: Ship details: is anyone interested?
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2010, 04:13:08 AM »
Bob , the ship is definetely on charter to Canfornav - she was in Melbourne not so long ago. Her and her sister Tundra are to be used by Alcoa for shipping pet coke out of Longview for their customers and spot cargoes for redelivery.
Some of us are lucky enough to work close to the action with access to almost everything. All first timers we photograph and write them up in our local gazette with what they are doing here , owners etc etc etc.

Whilst some details regading ship ownership can seem compl,etely confusing it makes for a good paper trail.

If you need anything regarding a particular ship drop me a line. Also as you seem to be write into it if you want a sample of our newsletter let me know - it is around 20 pages that include around 35 color photos.

Regds

Pete

 

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