Author Topic: China shipbuilding quality  (Read 7891 times)

Offline odindj

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China shipbuilding quality
« on: April 29, 2010, 04:07:28 AM »
I received a letter from a man working in engineering shop in Australia, with regards to China shipbuilding quality, and I think what he wrote is though not a big surprise, but still, important and alarming.
Mikhail Voytenko
Maritime Bulletin
http://www.odin.tc/eng

Dear Sir/Madam
I am a supervisor of a small engineering workshop in Gladstone, Queensland, Australia. We mainly service the bauxite ships that deliver product to the 2 Alumina refineries in our town. We also do repairs on various foreign ships that come to port. We have just worked a Russian crewed ship that was constructed in China and completed 3 month ago. What amazed my crew and my self was the standard of finish or more to the point, lack of standard of finish of this ship. We repaired the salt water cooling system of this ship or more to the point the crap welds that were done during its construction. The wrong filler material had been used and the whole system leaked like a sieve.
My point is this. How are ships like this accepted into the world fleet in the first place and what checks are done and who is doing them as there did not appear to be any quality control on this vessel at all. This is not the first ship we have come across that lacks any build quality of any type. It makes me wonder how long it will be before some of the

Offline Toby Tofaute

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Re: China shipbuilding quality
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2010, 05:47:46 AM »
Indeed its alarming to hear, but no surprise to me.....The shipyards are interested in money, not really in quality, but i am also surprised that the inspectors of the shipping companies who orderd ships let is pass in that kind of condition.
One of our teachers yesterday said, he is a shipping company owner, he took over a ship, and that was built in China not too long ago. He comment: The most horrible ship from building standards he has ever seen. Cant agree more to that.

What comes next.....the big ones built there will split in half while in a force 4 wind????

An becoming Officer

Offline Phil English

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Re: China shipbuilding quality
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2010, 08:22:38 AM »
I feel that this is big generalisation. State-owned Chinese yards such as those which operate under the CSSC and CSIC umbrellas are generally regarded for their high quality ships, equalling those of Korea and Japan. Many of the Western shipowners who ordered tonnage in China set up site offices at the yards to oversee construction and to ensure that quality work was carried out.  However, many small private yards were established in China to take advantage of the shipbuilding boom of 2007-2008 and there isn't much doubt that some of these yards produced poor quality vessels, lack of experience being a major factor. However, many were built for domestic Chinese trades and, as such, are not IACS classed. Those built for Western owners might not have the standards of comfort expected by Western crews and there are stories of owners refusing to accept ships until adequate work had been carried out, but with thousands of Chinese built ships out there, there is nothing to suggest that they are any less safe than vessels built elsewhere.

Offline Morten

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Re: China shipbuilding quality
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2010, 08:23:09 AM »
The problem is that the shipping business is all about the money! It doesn't really matter if it is the yard or the owner, they only think about the money!
This translates into some owners (you can't really blame the yard, they just build what they are told) building vessels of abysmal quality! And after they are built, they recruit crews from extremely poor areas because they know that these people are afraid to loose their job if they dare speak up.
If the ships sink, the insurer (P&I) will cover the loss - so it doesn't really matter if a sailor or two perish in the accident. Eastern European and Asian sailors are a dime a dusin, so there is always someone willing to take over!

Some of the blame is also on the different port states who aren't nearly good enough at focusing on the important stuff! They care about certificates and rules, but they aren't nearly good enough to catch many of these death traps!

Of cause there are many ship owners who do care about the standard of their ship and safety of their crews, but this can also be traced back to money as they are able to charge more for the freight because of higher standards.

I don't think you have to nervous about working on Western European ships, but many vessels under flags of convenience are nothing but death traps to their crews!

- A former ships officer

Offline Phil English

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Re: China shipbuilding quality
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2010, 08:29:01 AM »
Of course it's about money. Shipping is a business like anything else and if no money is made businesses go to the wall and people lose their jobs. Simple. Yes, there are substandard ships and dodgy owners and I do not doubt that more could be done to eradicate such isses. However, please let's not generalise and create scare stories.

Offline Nicholas Alexandrou

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Re: China shipbuilding quality
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2010, 09:12:54 AM »
Hey guys,
This is my first post and admittedly I just signed up to this site so I can contribute to this specific thread even though I have used it for my reference for the past 3 years.
I am a superintendent engineer for a shipping company in Greece. As you may have guessed I have been to China on many occasions for the purpose of scheduled repairs (SS&IS/DDs) as well as new building inspectiong/supervision.
First and foremost I would like to agree with you that generalisations could cause panic, however basis my experience I would say that 3 ship yards I have been to in China adhered to repair and building standards (to a minimum) all the rest which I have been to are something short of a disaster. Let me elaborate:
1) China is a labour intensive industrial country (makes sense as they are abt 1.4billion in population). i.e. Automation in welding and assembly is minimal, this increases possibility for flaws in construction/repairs even for the most skilled worker. Unfortunately, Chinese shipyards are light years away from having skilled labour.[will continue on next post]

..continuation of point 1)
I have witnessed with my own eyes large transport trucks picking up rice farmers at the end of their working day in the rice fields for their second job (doubling as welders for the night shift at the shipyard (when supt. engineers are sleeping, if any are attending at all). I cannot stress how pathetic the welds are. I would think a 10 year old could have a better understanding of the purpose and gravity of a weld seem. Whats truly alarming is that in most cases and for most companies, superintendent engineers will not inspect repairs and take the word of QC (quality control officer of shipyard) when a section of the vessel has been repaired/built. My friends, if you are one of those who take pride in their job, you will inspect every inch of weld and suss out any defects with the aid of your faithfull chipping hammer. And then you will be in agony and utter disbeleif when you see the following:[continued]

1) Incomplete welds (non existant) between primary and secondary structural members within ballast tanks. In simple english, A lot of the framework in important structural locations is simply tack welded in place and not welded with a seem (especially if it is in a difficult place to inspect) Imagine your house supported by framework that wasnt nailed together!!! Now imagine this house undergoing a mild wind storm, let alone a hurricane!!!

2) you will find scrap peices pinched from repair cropping 're-installed' in ballast tanks of new vessels or vessels being repaired (FOR THE LOVE OF GOD OR WHOEVER ELSE YOU BELIEVE IN) [continued]

3) you will find that various officers of the shipyard will act as if they dont understand english when you are going crazy about the above findings, and a couple days later boast their acceptable english in daily meetings between yard officials and shipping co's representatives.

4) the quality of steel plates supplied/installed is abismal, most of it comes from recycled steel 3 times over which has such large grain particles that once heated to fit in place release captured stresses cause 'new plate' to buckle and lose all structural integrity (nevertheless, these plates are not removed). [continued]

5) when supervisors of owners perform comprehensive quality control and inspections of works (mind you in one ballast tank I myself have found 83 serious welding deficiencies!) and rework is ordered, shipyards usually take away all or most of the workforce from the vessel the next day as blackmail and serious delays are caused. this means that in order to ever finish, honest engineers must turn a crooked eye here and there.
6) I wont even begin talking about engine room work, auxilliary machinery, etc. (Made in China with love!!! HAHAHAHAHA) I urge any operators performing shceduled surveys to take care of their CMS items well before arriving in China, this will save you loads of time, money and effort! IMPORTANT ALMOST ALL SPARES ARE NOT GENUINE EVEN THOUGH THEY SELL THEM TO YOU, or try at least, AT GENUINE PRICES!!!!

taking the above synoptical findings into account, many reading will probably ask me in which village does the company I work for build or repair ships??? I assure you these findings come from all over china in various shipyards for building vessels as well as repairing them.
The big question is who inspects these works and approve them? [answer continued]

heres the trick!!!!. Classification Societies have found it much cheaper to employ Chinese surveyors for their regional offices in China. So they employ Chinese surveyors, which is fine by me, however when the surveyor is in 'understanding' with the shipyard, and shipyard assists these gentlemen with 'assistance' equivalent to their anual salary (per vessel mind you) to complete works fast, after all time is money, you tell me if you are comfortable with a Chinese surveyor trying to convince you that your vessel is seaworthy with all of the above in mind regarding quality of works!!!!

To be fair though, materials and steel installed will be much cheaper for the owner of the vessel, (hence preference to chinese yards). However, in my expertise, I am confident that in the long run, it will prove much more costly when adding delays, reworks, and investment in proper spares. The company I work for sends 3 of us to repairs and a team of 5 for their new buildings. These supervising teams are barely adequate despite our high qualificaitons, especially on large vessels.
Now imagine vessels whose supt. engineers are out every night in bars and 'barber shops' who DONT inspect works thoroughly.... So in fact we see that the actual general rule is that this situation is alarming. And to my friend who predict disaster is ss 4 after 5 years. Maybe he is slightly overworrying.

...but if I was to make such an analogy I would say the following,

If a well built vessel has estimated trading life of 25 to 30 years, these marvels of chinese technology will begin having 'terminal' problems at the age of 15, and I think I am being very generous here. As promised there are good yards in China, I have only been to 3 (i suspect that there arent many more). These yards are predominantly managed by Japanese Shipbuilders... so there is a big difference in work ethos and weight to quality. I think ill stop my rambling here but just thought i would share my experiences with people who want the real story!!! BRGDS and hope i havent offended anyone with these truths!

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