Author Topic: 3 Men killed of the IOW  (Read 8982 times)

Offline Rich2001

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3 Men killed of the IOW
« on: August 29, 2006, 11:01:30 PM »
Hey guys, great site

3 Men have been killed of the IOW coast after a "possible" collision with a P&O ferry, in the area of the Nab Tower.

BBC Report

Offline Kelvin Davies

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Re: 3 Men killed of the IOW
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2006, 11:22:02 AM »
This has been on the news here for a week or more now and it raises a few questions, prime among them being what were they doing in the area where it is assumed they died?
As they haven't yet found their boat, they are not sure what happened where but if I was sailing from Bembridge to Dartmouth, I would have either gone via the Needles or at worst kept well within shore.
I sailed from Portsmouth to Le Havre the same evening and some of the yachts that could be seen bobbing around in the dark had the most intersting collection of lights I have ever seen.
A couple of them were not recognisable at all as yachts until we were close enough to see a sail.
Kelvin

Offline Hawkeye

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Re: 3 Men killed of the IOW
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2006, 10:37:06 PM »
Hi Richard & Kelvin
As already stated, this story has been in the media for about a week, since the first body was recovered and a major search started, which recovered the other two. No mayday was sent and the boat has yet to be found. Going from this, the boat may not be in the area where the bodies were found, they could have drifted.
The P&O ferry 'Pride of Bilbao' was broaded by the police in Portsmouth because they were checking for any ship that may have been in the area at the time. Their checks included the black box data recorder, which according to a newspaper report today (Wednesday) picked up something interesting. What that is the report never said. In the same paper, there is a picture of the 'Bilbao' with a small yacht very close to it. The rule of the road says that power must give way to sail, except in confined waters. The ferry has a bigger draft then the yacht and as only the front of the ferry is in the picture, I don't know if this was taken in confined waters. It looks very much like a game of Russian Roulete to me.
This reminds of a incident in the entrance to Portsmouth Harbour some years ago. There was a small launch fishing in the entrance (slap bang in the middle of it) with a ferry leaving. (It was eather the Pride of Portsmouth or the Pride of Le Harve, the ex Viking ones). The ferry did not know which way to go, so she blasted the her horn once indicating she was turning to starboard. The launch also moved to port, again putting the ship on a collision course. Next came two blasts saying she was going the other way (port), but the launch also turned back the other way. The next signal from the ferry was five blasts of her horn which, at the time I didn't know what it meant, but it nearly took out the eardrums of the people standing in the fort by the entrance. But the launch got out of the way quickly, because it probably realised the other ship was a little bit bigger then she was.
The five blasts, I later found out means something along the lines of 'what the ******* **** are you doing' or 'get the **** out of the way'.
I don't think it made the local headlines, and I don't know what happened with the launch, but the harbour master was there afterwards. And this was in broad daylight.
Regards
Karl
 :-)

Offline Richard Matterson

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Re: 3 Men killed of the IOW
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2006, 11:22:02 PM »
Karl,

As with many instances of interaction between large commercial and recreational vessels there is often a lack of knowledge of the sound signals on the part of the recreational master.  This is a problem throughout the world, there are many instances where a large ship has made an alteration of course to avoid a collision in accordance with the International Regulations for Prevention of Collision at Sea(ColRegs) only to see the recreational vessel make an alteration which nullifies that of the larger vessel.  Unfortunately it is the Master / OOW of the commercial vessel who is often villified in these instances, a number have lost their tickets and therefore their livelihood whilst the recreational skipper is given a slap on the wrist and told to be more careful in future.

I don't know what the answer is but I hope any enquiries into this incident are transparent.

Richard

Offline Kelvin Davies

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Re: 3 Men killed of the IOW
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2006, 09:17:50 PM »
Speaking of recreational skippers, large ships and stupidity, I discovered an excellent example of this a few days ago.
I was photographing ships entering and leaving Portsmouth harbour (waiting for the UUS Nitze to arrive).
Looking through the pictures a day or two later, I thought I saw something unusual near the stern of the ferry Normandie in a picture I had taken as she was coming out of the failry narrow harbour entrance.
I zoomed in, did some cropping and sharpening etc to see what it was and was amazed at what I saw.
Have a look here: http://kelvin.certacito.org.uk/pompy2.htm
Click on the pciture at the top left of the page to get a larger image. It is astounding!
Kelvin

Offline Richard Matterson

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Re: 3 Men killed of the IOW
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2006, 09:31:05 PM »
I think the worst I ever encountered was when skippering a fast catamaran and a rocket scientist in a small fast speedboat decided to undertake us (that's right between the two hulls!) First we knew about it was when he appearred right ahead of us at about 50 yards hollering and shouting - they thought it was hilarious until they realised the whole incident had been witnessed by the local water police.

Offline Morten

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Re: 3 Men killed of the IOW
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2006, 06:13:06 PM »
Even though there is a rule stating that small ships and sailing vessels are not to impede larger ships in a restricted flow they never comply with this quite crusial rule! And the thing is, I wouldn't notice it if i were to collide (obliverate) with a small ship and offen we won't notice them before it is to late!

I've tried, quite a few times, in just about any major traffic separation scheme that the small recreational vessels are completely oblivious to anything called a traffic separation or COLREG's, they just do what they want to and then it is our problem to get out of the way! And that is not always the easiest thing in 347 meters of container ship! Actually I once heard one suggesting that we do the same and just wrote "WE BRAKE FOR NO ONE" across the bow! That might not be that bad an idea!

Offline Mike and Rikki (aka Tig and Tink)

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Re: 3 Men killed of the IOW
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2006, 10:47:37 PM »
I'm very new here, having just been told about this (FANTASTIC) site.  We're back here in So. California and training for an upcoming kayak expedition, meaning I'm paddling 10-20 miles a day. To make it interesting we're paddling often from San Diego Bay.  So, I have to share my observations about ships and the seeming lack of common sense in many boaters.
Many times in the past couple months I've watched various ships coming in or out in the shipping channel and see boats cut across the bows, mostly sailboats tacking, though a couple times powerboats cutting close to the pointy end of the big steel cliff.  The true winner was when a Hunter 45 sailboat tacked in front of a cruise liner, while escorted by the USCG's RHIB! I couldn't not notice, there was the repeated blasts of the ship's horn.  First, the sailboat violated US and international law. Second, this violates the security zone established around cruise liners by US law (33 CFR part 165).  Third, that they put a nice sailboat and themselves, the careers of the cruise ship in harm's way, and in front of the USCG...  The thing that I found even more astounding was that the Coast Guard did nothing about it though penalties are clearly defined (33 USC 1232 and 50 USC 192)
In a perfect world of Darwinian natural selection, they should be run over including the offspring, too.  After all, bad genes need to be taken out of circulation.  Pity it would ruin careers and a perfectly fine sailboat, too...  Of course I'm being a bit harsh but whenever we're back in the US we are astounded by relatively higher examples of utter stupidity.  After all, anyone with their eyes open cannot miss seeing a giant ship coming along, and to put themselves in the path of a ship is beyond criminal but well into the realm of genetically flawed.
The US Navy ships that come in and leave the Bay have this procedure of slowing down to around 5 knots rounding the entrance buoy well offshore and as they enter the channel, creep along with one of the anchors ready to release, most often with security escort.  
On the other hand, our home in New Zealand, rarely does one see boats crossing in front of ships.  I wonder if there's a pattern here?  Perhaps there's a real need for certification prior to being allowed to own or operate a boat?

Offline Malim Sahib

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Re: 3 Men killed of the IOW
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2006, 10:14:33 AM »
My view is that if you need to sit tests and have a licence to drive a car, then you should need to sit tests and have a licence to sail in a yacht or boat. At the moment, such certification is voluntary for the vast majority of boats.
Only then will we have anything approaching sanity from the WAFI* fraternity.

*Wind Assisted F**k**g Idiots

Offline Malim Sahib

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Re: 3 Men killed of the IOW
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2006, 10:16:04 AM »
Duplicate Post

Offline Malim Sahib

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Re: 3 Men killed of the IOW
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2006, 10:20:29 AM »
My view is that if you need to sit tests and have a licence to drive a car, then you should need to sit tests and have a licence to sail in a yacht or boat. At the moment, such certification is voluntary for the vast majority of boats.
Only then will we have anything approaching sanity from the WAFI* fraternity.

*Wind Assisted F**k**g Idiots

Offline Mike and Rikki (aka Tig and Tink)

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Re: 3 Men killed of the IOW
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2006, 09:49:42 PM »
You are truly preaching to the choir sir!

Offline Ron

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Re: 3 Men killed of the IOW
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2006, 08:21:28 PM »
Yes, just like on the roads where the introduction of testing and licensing has seen an end to reckless and irresponible behaviour. :roll:

Offline Malim Sahib

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Re: 3 Men killed of the IOW
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2006, 07:59:19 PM »
Could you imagine there being no regulation, training or licensing for cars and lorries? It would be mayhem.
It doesn't eradicate risk or accidents, nothing will, but it will no doubt make a massive dent in the statistics.

Offline Richard Matterson

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Re: 3 Men killed of the IOW
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2006, 08:20:46 PM »
We conduct a lot of training for both small commercial vessel operators (up to 80m) and the occasional recreational skipper. There is one underlying problem here in Australia and that is the 'it won't happen to me' mentality, that is I'm safe it's the other guy who is the fool.  The problem is it only takes one fool to cause an accident.  Mandatory licencing is not the issue, mandatory competency based training (practical assessing behind the helm) is the only way to ensure an improved standard of vessel skipper.

 

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