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Author Topic: Suez Canal blockage by Ever Given  (Read 6746 times)
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Jim McQuarrie
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« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2021, 03:57:40 pm »

If they can't get a crane could a Chinook lift containers?
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Tomislav Raymondi
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« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2021, 06:19:09 pm »

This exchange of opinions is getting very interesting, let's see what in my opinion I made it very general, so let's see it from another perspective, as I see it as a hull and machinery inspector and damage adjuster for insurers and P&I Clubs apart from my experience in navigation.

First of all Frank and simonwp is that I mean how complicated and slow without mentioning how expensive it is to solve this type of problems and breakdowns, this ship has a total length of 399.98 Mts, that is to say 400.00 Mts., Its beam is 58 , 80 Mts., And its depth is 26.20 Mts., When I spoke about the navigation of Suez and Panama I was referring to that ships of this size if they have any damage, occurrences or accidents in the navigation, the time and cost of the repair or solution of the problem (that is, the direct cost of solving the problem) plus indirect costs such as the total blocking of traffic in both directions, costs of stopping the canal, daily costs of all vessels stopped waiting to resume the trip, delays in delivery of goods, congestion in the ports once traffic has resumed, etc, etc, are extremely high, we would be talking about billions of dollars not a few cents more or less.

Now, let's look at the specific case of the transit of ships through both channels, and in which I accept my mistake was not when they were inaugurated but rather how their transit is:

The Suez Canal runs open-pit, that is, it does not need any type of lock to level its traffic between one point and another, but this does not leave it free from accidents such as the one suffered by the "Ever Gifted", please remember also the other mishaps suffered by other ships with characteristics very similar to this ship, which suffered the fall of several containers into the sea due to bad weather in transit, having to return to port to unload broken containers that were left on deck and re-stowage of ships.

Suppose that during the transit the ship suffers a major breakdown or fire in the Engine Roo m or the Main Engine that does not allow it to continue its normal journey and leaves it stranded in the channel, it is very possible that this varies as a result of drift, current, wind, etc., which would cause this same occurrence.

Now, and this in my modest understanding is a little more complicated is in the transit through the Panama Canal, because in this canal a system of locks is needed to overcome the different levels between the Pacific Ocean and Caribbean Sea (Atlantic Ocean), the original locks. Miraflores, Pedro Miguel and Gatun were enough for the passage of let's say conventional ships, and the use of the "mules" allowed the ships to keep centered apart from towing them during the transit through them, but this is not applicable for these now called ULCV That is why the Cocoli and Aguas Claras locks were built, but here it must be mentioned that the traffic of the ships is done with tugboats, those who take the ship and introduce it to the locks remain inside the locks with the ship at a minimum distance, which caused many inconveniences and labor protests by the tugboat crews with the canal administration, due to the occupational risk they were running.

For example, what would happen if one of these vessels suffered a serious breakdown in Lake Miraflores, Culebra Cut or Lake Gatun? It would be another traffic jam of gigantic ships for trade, ships and sidereal sums to solve the problem, for this I cannot explain why, with the first alerts of the type of damage that these ships could suffer, the maximum drafts of navigation for traffic through both channels, the maximum height or maximum number of containers on board, maximum drafts, maximum dimensions of the ships, if this type of ships can navigate expeditiously through the channels, all this to minimize the consequences of any breakdown on board.

All the round trips of these ships are with a load of more than 20,000 containers? I think not, I have seen this type of ships with a minimum amount of containers on board, are these ships safe in bad weather? In practice and not in theory that sometimes they tend to be very different, what should be a maximum height of containers on board for safe navigation and not leave a trail of containers on the bottom of the sea, in short I think this would be enough not to enter into useless musings.

Regards

Tomi.
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ChasB46
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« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2021, 06:28:27 pm »

Maximum "legal" container gross weight 29 tons. Chinook max lift 7.25 tons in hot weather. The maximum lift of any helicopter in service ..the USA  CH-53 Super Stallion = 33 ton. (152 in service somewhere)
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rarcand
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« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2021, 07:25:31 pm »

Some optimist posted a picture on MarineTraffic of the ship where the word EVERGREEN is changed for EVERGROUND.  Grin
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Tomislav Raymondi
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« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2021, 07:55:16 pm »

Just for laughing.

The Ever Given on course to Rotterdam.
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Tuomas Romu
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« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2021, 10:08:05 pm »

The maximum lift of any helicopter in service ..the USA  CH-53 Super Stallion = 33 ton

That's the maximum takeoff weight, not the maximum lifting capacity. The maximum external payload is 16.3 tonnes.

The bigger and more powerful Mil Mi-26, which has actually been used to unload ships in the past, can transport 20 tons of cargo but I don't know what's the maximum external payload.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2021, 10:10:04 pm by Tuomas Romu » Report to moderator   Logged
Cisco
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« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2021, 12:36:26 am »

They used Chinooks on the Anro Asia when she was aground in 1981.. took off about 50 boxes.
https://bribieislandhistory.blogspot.com/2019/10/anroasia1981.html

Did it make a difference ? Probably not.
What was the box weight?
Possibly 20 footers full of soft toys...dunno...
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Cisco
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« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2021, 12:39:15 am »

This exchange of opinions is getting very interesting, let's see what in my opinion I made it very general, so let's see it from another perspective, as I see it as a hull and machinery inspector and damage adjuster for insurers and P&I Clubs apart from my experience in navigation.
.......

Regards

Tomi.

I think that , like the 500,000 ton tanker,  they have pushed the envelope just a little bit too far with these ships.
That doesn't seem to have stopped them building them however...
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Pilot Frans
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« Reply #23 on: March 27, 2021, 05:18:15 pm »

What was the box weight?

An empty one 2,2 ton
a loaded 20ft one upto 23 tonnes
a loaded 40ft one upto 35 tonnes

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Jim McQuarrie
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« Reply #24 on: March 27, 2021, 05:34:15 pm »

Checked Marine Traffic 5.30pm GMT-Looks like stern has moved towards centre
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csaba
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« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2021, 05:05:29 am »

Just curious about liability here.
Is the ship's captain ultimately responsible for the ship in Suez transit or do the pilots carry any responsibility?
How necessary are the pilots in Suez?
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Captain Ted
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« Reply #26 on: March 28, 2021, 02:00:36 pm »

CSABA,, well, as the Master is and stays in command he is ultimately responsible for the ship and whatever happens through or by it. Beside that, every ship nowadays has a insurance through PandI in case of such disasters which is far reaching, incl for example oil removal and wreck removal afterwards. This is however not a total loss and therefore all the owners of the cargoes aboard and the owner of the vessel have to come up for the payment. If I ship a container with 1 million worth of cargo in it, I better have insurance anyway and generally speaking I would insure it which is normally offered at booking time.
When this is cleared, the insurances working it out between them who pays what or how much.

btw,,the only place where the Pilot takes command of the vessel is the Panama Canal ,but that has to do with military and such. 
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NOW!!!,,,if we could get rid of the sailors,,how safe shipping would be !!!!!!!!
Tomislav Raymondi
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« Reply #27 on: March 28, 2021, 02:40:04 pm »

Yes, under a General Average declaration by ship's owners; all the interests on board concur in their proportional part in the payment of all the expenses incurred for the normal continuation of the trip, only if the cause of such declaration is considered within the York and Antwerp rules.

Regards

Tomi.
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Jens Heri
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« Reply #28 on: March 28, 2021, 11:52:48 pm »

Marchen Maersk imo 9632143 will take the long route round Africa.

The ETA for Rotterdam was April 11th and with the extra 5000 miles the new ETA for Rotterdam is April 18th.
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Hannes van Rijn
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« Reply #29 on: March 29, 2021, 03:20:33 am »

The Ever Given is refloated again !!
At least ten Tugboats pulled the Ever Given out last night !!!
« Last Edit: March 29, 2021, 03:35:40 am by Hannes van Rijn » Report to moderator   Logged
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