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Author Topic: Incorrect designation of HMCS Orca class vessels  (Read 2267 times)
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dirk septer
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« on: June 21, 2019, 01:06:11 pm »

The eight steel hulled HMCS Orca-class vessels:
ORCA (PCT55)-RAVEN (PCT56)-CARIBOU (PCT57)-RENARD (PCT58)-WOLF (PCT59)- GRIZZLY(PCT60)- COUGAR(PCT61)- and MOOSE (PCT62) are not commissioned vessels and have not been given HMCS designation.

Can this be corrected?
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andrecas
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« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2019, 02:13:31 pm »

Your topic reminded me of an exchange that took place 6 months ago.....
www.shipspotting.com/gallery/photo.php?lid=2818026
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dirk septer
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« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2019, 03:37:04 pm »

Technically they are auxiliary vessels crewed by RCN personnel.
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Kyle Stubbs
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« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2019, 04:36:16 pm »

For consistency's sake, I would think the prefix "CFAV," for what I assume is "Canadian Forces Auxiliary Vessel, should be used for any non-commissioned Canadian Navy vessels. That prefix is already in place for Canadian Navy tugs, such as the GLENDYNE:

http://www.shipspotting.com/gallery/photo.php?lid=1155003

Since CFAV seems to already be established as some form of standard, I don't see why it shouldn't be carried over to the Orca-class vessels, in the form of using a photo title of, for example, CFAV ORCA PCT55.
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andrecas
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« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2019, 05:34:04 pm »

Rummaging through my "inbox" I came across this Nov. 27, 2018 message from Capt Wade Armstrong....

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Canadian Navy PCT Prefixes
Sent to: Jarrod David, Dennis J. Dubinsky, andrecas on: November 27, 2018, 02:21:52 am
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Aloha.

While many of us recognize that some military ships do not neatly fit into clearly defined categories, it was determined long before I began working as an Admin that the Canadian PCT class would be referred to as "HMCS", not "CFAV".  See the list of approved prefixes: http://www.shipspotting.com/support/faq.php?category=Military Ships#356

With most military ships not having an IMO number, keeping the prefix and name exactly the same eases searching for other photos of the same vessel.  If you have clear evidence that the RCN refers to this class as CFAV, we can change them all to CFAV.

Regards,

Wade Armstrong
Military Ships Coordinator

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Kyle Stubbs
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« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2019, 06:21:42 pm »

I have managed to find clear evidence in a Canadian Government-endorsed description that refers to the class with the prefix CFAV.

The following document, published for the Canadian Government Director Meteorology and Oceanography by General Dynamics in 2015, includes, in section 2.3, a list of Navy equipment. All commissioned vessels are referred to as "HCMS," while most of the remainder, including the Orca-class, are all described as "CFAV." Seems like a fairly clear delineation to me.

http://cradpdf.drdc-rddc.gc.ca/PDFS/unc199/p802440_A1b.pdf
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andrecas
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« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2019, 07:22:44 pm »

Works for me..! I used the CFAV prefix in one of my Orca class 2018 uploads and someone in the admin group changed it back to HMCS.... Huh
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dirk septer
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« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2019, 03:12:43 am »

likewise, my Orca class CFAV designations were changed to the incorrect HMCS one by Shipspotting admin.

Since the Orca class vessels replaced the then 50-year old, wooden-hulled, Yard Auxiliary General (YAG) training vessels, maybe they now should get this YAG-designation as well.

To me, the Orca class vessels are still quite different from other auxiliary vessels like tug boats or even smaller ones that have the CFAV-designation.

Auxiliary vessels like CFAV Abalone are certainly quite different from the Orca class vessels:

http://www.shipspotting.com/gallery/photo.php?lid=2788176


Or why not simply refer them to, for example, Orca PCT55?
« Last Edit: June 22, 2019, 03:23:49 am by dirk septer » Report to moderator   Logged
andrecas
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« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2019, 01:15:44 am »

After re-reading posted comments as well as other on-line material , it is clear to me that these PCT's (Patrol Craft Training) ships are non-commissioned vessels and as such do not received the prefix HMCS. On line sources identify them as "CFAV" or "PCT" Orca, Caribou, Grizzly, etc.
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WadeArmstrong
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« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2019, 11:35:06 pm »

Corrected.  PM sent to contributors.
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« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2019, 10:55:48 am »

Thanks Wade.
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dirk septer
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« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2019, 11:41:25 am »

Final decision on proper designation of HMCS Orca class vessels:

Your forum posts provided clear justification (if not incontrovertible evidence) that the better prefix was "CFAV".  My further research provided several more semi-official references to the class as "CFAV".  Accordingly I have changed the prefixes of the Orca-class PCT to "CFAV", based on your advice.
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