Author Topic: Enough is enough. Reposting shots here from another PUBLIC and FREE sites  (Read 22323 times)

Offline DEREK SANDS

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Hi Everyone,

Any policy change on this site from the current ones cannot be driven by the opinions of a few.
Neither can it be done in an instant, to many things to consider.
We are working on all aspects of this site which has grown to a size where any team of volunteers would struggle to keep up day to day.

There are so many things to do and the site had been left to stagnate rather than progress.

We have made a start and will continue working on it. Are we doing the right things I wonder sometimes as most members don't say anything at all. Once the review of site standards is under way all will be able to express an opinion. If you wish that to include a vote of no confidence in the present team then say so.

 My tenure on here is only a temporary one until things are running well enough for me to leave. Derek Lilley would also like to take a back seat. So in the future we will be looking for two new Webmasters to take on what we have started, and joining our two other Webmasters that are based in different time zones.

best regards

Derek

Offline pieter melissen

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"I am now custodian of a collection of colour slides taken at various ports in the UK  and Europe from the late 50's and 60's, yes, many Liberties etc etc, but they will NOT be uploaded here or elsewhere as the copyright remains with the photographer, not with me.  And in any case, I did not take them, much as perhaps I wish I had."

Allan and what if the photographer would give you permission to upload them? Have you asked for that? What is the purpose of "being a custodian"? Are you preparing an exhibition somewhere? Questions, questions...

When I was actively shooting in the eighties, I was never alone along the New Waterway. I have been wondering for a while where all the old photos have gone to. Is everybody sitting on them hoping to earn a fortune on Ebay? The only photographer currently posting is Mike Griffiths and his shots get the credit they deserve.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2015, 10:36:50 AM by pieter melissen »

Offline Tony des Landes

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Pieter - I quite agree with your sentiments. I hate to think how many collections are wasting away in a box somewhere and probably will never be seen by anybody because of concerns over copyright. I struggle to understand the sense in keeping something hidden away when it is quite possible the photographer may be quite happy to have their legacy shared with people all of the world.

It's such a waste of a resource which may not have much monetary value, but can be priceless to enthusiasts such as ourselves.

I wonder what Walter E Frost would have said if he knew that one day people all over the world would be enjoying his photos thanks to the wonders of the Internet - he may even have approved

« Last Edit: August 06, 2015, 10:11:51 AM by Tony des Landes »
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Offline PHa

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Sorry, but i absoluteley do not agree with the opinion @ ventuari. For example: Paul Wille
« Last Edit: August 06, 2015, 10:17:21 AM by PHa »

Offline echobow

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Hi Peter and other fellow shipspotter.
I think Ventuari has a point and with respect to what has been contributed to this discussion by others such as Jadran or Capt. Ted I won't come to the conclusion that everyone regards the uploads from the Vancouver archives as a site-highlights. Nor seems it to be, like you say a "very small minority" that prefers photographs shared which were actually taken from the very member who posts them. So do I. And there are actually some spotters around here, who support the pool of historic shots on this site with photos taken by themselves decades ago. Therefore I won't neccessarily ascribe someone a lack of historical awareness, it is rather, like Simonwp said before, a competition of many different attitudes towards the character of this site.

Regards, David

Offline pieter melissen

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but david, in a competition it is common practice that someone has to win. On this site I would prefer to that we have peaceful co-existence, where both the current every day ship hunter and the poster of historic images (with permission) can do what they are most happy with, without having to continuously defend themselves against each other. It is simple, what you don't want to look at, you simply skip.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2015, 10:44:51 AM by pieter melissen »

Offline echobow

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Hi Pieter,
yes, you're right. "Competition" is probably the wrong expression in this context. I like the word "co-existence". The only competition however takes place in discussions like this one, where different opinions bang together:)
Nevertheless, I encourage you Ventuari not to post shots from the Vancouver archives yourself. As for me, there are enough B&W photos already around and I do prefer your colourful shots taken from the Canarian rocks and the Spanish coatsline.

Offline Allan RO

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Hi Pieter

In reply to your comment about being custodian of a slide collection.  The photographer regrettably passed away some years ago and his widow gave the slides to the Maritime Society of which I am currently secretary.   The slides are now the property of the Society, although as far as I am aware the question of copyright transfer was not discussed or agreed so still belongs to the photographer, certainly not with me. The slides are on occasion used in slide shows to members at our monthly meetings and also used to illustrate articles in our monthly newsletter.  I am sure I could amass hundreds of hits with the Uruguayan Liberty ship, and many other notable exotics, and I would love to be able to share them with members on SS, I'm sure they would be most appreciated - but I simply can't - they are not mine to share.

Allan

Offline pieter melissen

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I can understand, Allan that under the current conditions you cannot. But the question is, have you asked/suggested the heirs/owners of the copyrights whether they would object in having those shots being published here, and if so under what conditions? And FWIW I am hardly interested in a Uruguayan Liberty ship, but I am sure it is not the only ship in that collection. ;)

Offline simonwp

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A great many donations of photographs and slides were made to groups like Marine Society and World Ship Society long before the dawn of the internet and website's like this. At that time it was seen as the best way to enable others to enjoy the collection. It is a shame that now there are so many ways to share these collections, the custodians feel constrained by worries about copyright, ownership etc., which results in the collections not being shared, which is probably the opposite of what the donor originally wanted.

I have scanned all my slides and photographs, and donated the originals to the WSS, while retaining the scans. However I've told WSS I'm quite happy for them to use any material as they see fit, with suitable acknowledgement, while I retain the use of the scans, including posting on here. Because I've taken them myself I see no problem.

However the current debate is if this particular site is an appropriate site for archive material not personally photographed by the poster. I think it is, subject to the copyright proviso, but it is obvious that others have different views.


Offline Cornelia Klier

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I think ventuary made a very good point here and I agree with him, although his wording is strange and very unlucky. I think, this site is for people who take and have taken photos of ships as a hobby. Not for press photographs and not for any kind of photos from archves. My opinion, just what I see. I quickly scroll over these black white photos only if its an old German coaster I look closer. Place here for all type of ships,that for sure.

Offline Malim Sahib

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Regarding what should and shouldn't be on this site, I am absolutely in favour of the old ship photos posted by the likes of Paul and Gordy. These would likely not see the mainstream light of day and are interesting in both a social and historical context.
They also help the website in the eyes of the internet public as the site is increasingly seen as being the first point of reference for ship photos both old and new. If in doubt, post a photo of the latest Maerk triple E fresh from the builders at the same time as a shot of one of Erikson's barques under full sail, or a 1920s tramp and see what gets the most attention!
« Last Edit: August 06, 2015, 09:20:36 PM by Malim Sahib »

Offline Paul Wille

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Remember...
Walter E. Frost (1898-1988) was the world's first shipspotter ...
Thank you for your support who's concerned !
I'll be back !
Best regards from Amsterdam,
Paul Wille

Offline carimar

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Thanks to Paul! I just came aware of this great tresure box from Vancouver due his uploads, if he had not uploaded some of this lovely photographs i would never noticed Walter Frost's great work from the past. So please keep on uploading Paul and to the others who disagree, keep calm please! i know it is a hot summer in some part's of the world right now... ;)

Offline Luko P.

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Quote
Derek Lilley wrote:  >> This site has the capacity to accept pictures of all genres and as long as the photos in question conform to the requirements of the site they should be available for the membership to be seen if they so desire.<<
Derek Lilley put it nicely in his post, thanks Derek.
I am one of those who's contribution to the site is rather minor, however who enjoy browsing the site, looking beautiful ships' photos, old and new, b&w and colour. So, let keep the copyright things to admins and lawyers; and let this site be open to all photos, old and new, if these meet requirements of the site. There are many of us who would never see numerous historic photos if these were not uploaded to this site.
It is up to site management to set the rules how to proceed with this matter in the future, however I think they should not be guided only by the strongest voices.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2015, 06:59:15 AM by Luko P. »
:hammer:
Quote
lupe

 

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