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Author Topic: Enough is enough. Reposting shots here from another PUBLIC and FREE sites  (Read 20665 times)
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ventuari
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« on: August 05, 2015, 09:34:34 am »

Hi.

I hope the administration take action ASAP.

Enough is enough.

In 9 years at Shipspotting I never complained about deletions, rules, or another members postings, but in this case I TOTALLY AGREE with Captain Ted and Jadran.

I request the deletion of Mr Paul Wille shots series. They are Public and Free. You can see those shots ( from a lot of years ago ) in several public sites.

This is Shipspotting not reposting or shipsposter site.

The same with the Vancouver archives. I just went to the City of Vancouver Archives site and right click and save to my PC a bunch of Mr Paul Willie previus uploads to Shipspotting from that site. They are Public and Free.
 
I can do the same with more than the 7000 shots remaining still there from Mr. Frost, Walter E. (1898-1988) the original creator-author of the shots. ( More than 7000 because Mr. Paul Wille just uploaded here more than 2220 from the Public Archives and the total Mr. Walter E. Frost fond contains more than 9000 shots)

So...tell me If I can upload (starting right now) the Mr. Walter E. Frost more than 7000 shots here.

I have plenty spare time to do it...

I dont complain about the historic part of the shots but the way members just copy from another Public and Free sites ( Public Archives, magazines, newspapers, Coast Guard, Of.sites, another ships relates sites, etc...) to upload here those shots. If you like those historic shots go the proper archives around the WWW and enjoy. Not repost here what you can see in the original PUBLIC site.

To the fellow members...take your camera and equipment, move your ass from the chair in front of your PC monitor, go out, and do SHIPSPOTTING. ITS NICE. Enjoy taking your own shots.

Mr. Administrators waiting for your input and please ASAP take action.

Regards.
ventuari.

P.S. Here its the link to City of Vancouver Archives, The Mr. Walter E. Frost fond, with more than 9000 ship photos ( scanned H.resolution, Free, Public, ...) More of 2200 of those shots uploaded here by Mr. Paul Wille, just right click...) and in first place in front of you the Belfast... Angry Shocked Huh

http://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/index.php/ships-2
« Last Edit: August 05, 2015, 10:08:10 am by ventuari » Report to moderator   Logged
jadran
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« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2015, 09:50:25 am »


UPLOADING PHOTOS from Photo archives of Public Domain and Free sites

I am curious to learn:
What is the present, current Website policy regarding the subject ... and what shall it remain, or, be revised further on.

Thank you !
Jadran


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Paul Wille
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« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2015, 10:14:26 am »

Enough is enough uploading boring photos of all the same box boats !!
Have a bad day !
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DEREK SANDS
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« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2015, 10:50:26 am »

Hi Everyone,

Firstly the shots from Walter E. Frost have been uploaded to the site for a long time now.
He is fully credited as the photographer. Paul is making them more widely known, as myself I even had no idea before that these photos were able to be seen on the internet.

There are several others posting photos with copyright on the site without problem.

They are known and on the list approved by the last Webmaster.

The decision to continue to allow photos to be posted or not cannot be decided by a member placing a thread like this in the forum and demanding action.

I have removed the ones without a named photographer that were posted earlier as the previous Webmaster had disallowed those type of photo uploads before.

Please keep any discussion sensible and cordial.

best regards

Derek
« Last Edit: August 05, 2015, 10:55:30 am by DEREK SANDS » Report to moderator   Logged

simonwp
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« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2015, 10:53:48 am »

Personally I have no problem with these photographs being reposted on here, provided they are properly credited, and there are no ownership or copyright issues. If I'm looking for a photograph of a ship it's easier to look on one website than several.

However it may be better to try and work in partnership with such websites especially if additional data is being added by members when posting on here. Also having links to such sites from this one could be useful. There could be much to be gained.

The discussion, though, does appear to be symptomatic of several that have been on the forum recently, which appear to revolve around exactly what this site is for. I guess with so many members there are many views on this, but not much clarity. Some feel it should be just about ship photographs, and are happy with a relatively narrow base of modern ships as long as the photographs is of good quality. Others prefer to see a wider variety of both modern and older vessels, with less emphasis on the quality of the photograph. Others would like to see more information around the vessels on the site, and more generic shipping news items. There needs I feel to be a bit more clarity around this, whatever the answer is it won't please everyone, and some members will leave, but, as the old saying goes, you can please all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time.

It was a little unfair, Ventuari, to make your comment about people getting off their ass and taking photographs, there many valid reasons why some members cannot just do this, such as age, infirmity, living a long way from the sea, etc., and sites like this are often their only contact with shipping. Unless you are suggesting that this site should just be for active photographs posting for the benefit of other active photographers, which is yet another version of what this site should be for.
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Dеnis
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« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2015, 11:29:47 am »

To the fellow members...take your camera and equipment, move your ass from the chair in front of your PC monitor, go out, and do SHIPSPOTTING. ITS NICE. Enjoy taking your own shots.

Great idea!  *Looks at the AIS*  Same empty port...  Aw man!  Undecided


Either way, it's nice seeing "Any beautiful B&W ships for today?" since this mostly is the only site I see ships everyday, but if one member would just go ahead & make a list of sites where I can see same beautiful B&W ships in just few clicks, that would be nice too! 
It's fine if you own those B&W photos/copyright from someone else you post here since they can't be found elsewhere, but reposting what's available for anyone from other site anyway is not really what this site is about.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2015, 11:31:48 am by Dеnis » Report to moderator   Logged
jadran
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« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2015, 12:19:24 pm »



I have removed the ones without a named photographer that were posted earlier as the previous Webmaster had disallowed those type of photo uploads before.

Derek



Hi Derek

I am herewith not referring to Walter E. Frost photos, nor I previously was.
I have actually referred to a recent set of 3 photos reposted-out from the US Coast Guard archives - Public Domain (photographer not known).

I see your brief response (above framed in grey) and I thank you !
However, I still remain curious, and eager to exactly learn out of a written text in form of a statement, about the Website policy which we all should duly accept and follow as the contributing members of this esteemed Website,, therefore I feel free to repeat my query:
What is the present, current Website policy regarding the subject ... and what shall it remain, or, be revised further on.


Derek, I'm herewith not hurrying you up !
Take your time, as much as necessary, to construct an appropriate attitude & written instructions regarding the subject issue, for which I believe is a rather important part of the Website policy to be maintained the way you direct it now.

Kind regards,
Jadran


PS
However, looking from ventuari's angle & point of view, he has made the point, when asking if he may also upload the remaining photos of  Walter E. Frost from the Vancouver archives onto this site.
Technically, he can do the upload very easy,, his point is ... is he permitted to do so.
Website policy, rules, requirements and standards implemented by the website should be equally required to be accepted/followed by all the Members.
Would be utterly worthy, and praised with a big 'bow' for the Website, if no exceptions or maybe some 'privileges' are granted to any or even only one member (we should all be very equal Members of the website, and all of us members should be treated, within the  same level & rights of the common membership).   


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Kyle Stubbs
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« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2015, 02:31:42 pm »

The spirit of this site is in posting the ships members have seen as a part of a hobby. Whether that hobby is among landlubbers or seafarers doesn't matter. The images posted from collections, such as those of Walter E. Frost fall within that spirit, but in being available to the public, can be posted by any member. Site policy has pursued that interest with this, and other freely shared collections, by keeping the original posting and deleting any subsequent duplicates, regardless of the poster.

In my opinion, however, images from sources such as the US Coast Guard and Navy do not follow the same spirit. Yes, they are public domain, but solely because they were taken by employees under orders, and paid for with taxpayer money. There is no hobby interest behind them, just the pursuit of the, in many cases, anonymous photographer's job. As such, the primary intention is for them to be available to all taxpayers of the nation, as logically, they are the owners of the image.

Kind Regards,
Kyle
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DEREK SANDS
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« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2015, 03:01:40 pm »

Well said Kyle, Nicely put.

Jadran, of course Policy of this site is not as well known as it should be but the standards are there as a guidance. However as you may be aware the site is going to be reviewing all standards and guidelines as soon as possible and has engaged someone to do this.
Once we are at the formulation stage then members will be encouraged in a dedicated forum to help us with policy and standards. At present it would not be wise to change things before this review. So existing policy and standards will have to do for the present.

There are many things to do on the site and it is my intention to see these through to completion. A start has been made with several new appointments of admins including a dedicated correction team. Two new Webmasters have also been made for the Australasian and America's time zones. New tools have been introduced to help the correction editors and Henrik is working on others. The issue of the demise of Grosstonnage has left us with some options.
We are trying to get a link up to another database, but if this is not successful then we may have to update and input new information ourselves manually. At the moment this is not possible due to the old link with Grosstonnage.With nearly 2 million images a manual input would be some undertaking for a team of volunteers!

There is a commitment of time each day by the volunteers working in the admin team and some of us are spending a lot of time each day working on, or for the site. Its not possible for
most of us to commit as much time as perhaps we would like. But we cannot be expected to sit at the PC for long hours each day like some hermit. We are doing our best but as I said there is some many things that need attention we are looking at long term solutions not quick fixes that will come back to haunt us later on and need doing again.

best regards

Derek
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Derek Lilley
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« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2015, 03:07:42 pm »

After reading some of the comments that have been posted, one word springs to mind and that is intolerance and surely we have enough of that in today's world already.

This site has the capacity to accept pictures of all genres and as long as the photos in question conform to the requirements of the site they should be available for the membership to be seen if they so desire.

I do not like some types of photos posted on the site, however I respect any other members right to be able to have them to look at and any members right to upload them.

If change is wanted, which I do not think is needed in this case, then the way surely to get it is by reasoned discussion and not a tirade against one member who has put old pictures on the site which many members have enjoyed.

Lastly having experience of knowing a person for whom moving their ass from a chair in not so easy to do I think this remark was more than a little unfair.

Discuss by all means, but polite reasoned discussion please.

Kind regards
Derek

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jadran
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« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2015, 04:42:44 pm »


Jadran, of course Policy of this site is not as well known as it should be but the standards are there as a guidance. However as you may be aware the site is going to be reviewing all standards and guidelines as soon as possible and has engaged someone to do this.
Once we are at the formulation stage then members will be encouraged in a dedicated forum to help us with policy and standards. At present it would not be wise to change things before this review. So existing policy and standards will have to do for the present.

Derek



Thank you very much Derek !

Your explanation to me regarding your intention how to resolve the subject issue, and the way how you intend to do it, together with all the remaining your intentions you have mentioned under your comprehensive 'entry', are indeed very encouraging and I truly support your constructive approach and efforts, that you are putting for the best possible resolution of the current problems, and how you are also having at the same time in mind,  a possible improvement of the Website features that would  achieve in general a higher quality of the site, in some certain time to come.

It seems, now, that every forthcoming day, will mean a better day for this Website.

Thank you once again,
Jadran

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steve55
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« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2015, 08:28:32 pm »

Hi Paul,enough is enough ,keep the oldies coming,as you say a box boat is a boxboat.regards steve55.
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Allan RO
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« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2015, 09:52:11 pm »

Hi everyone

I'm afraid I'm being a bit naive here, but my understanding is that this site was originally developed to enable members to upload photographs that they have taken and to share them with other members.  It was never designed to permit members to upload photographs taken some 50 years ago by someone else.  OK, there may not be a copyright problem, and many are of great interest, but surely uploading these photos is not in the original spirit of the site. And in any case it seems these photos are available to anyone to source elsewhere...

I am now custodian of a collection of colour slides taken at various ports in the UK  and Europe from the late 50's and 60's, yes, many Liberties etc etc, but they will NOT be uploaded here or elsewhere as the copyright remains with the photographer, not with me.  And in any case, I did not take them, much as perhaps I wish I had.

Allan
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Paul Bradshaw
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« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2015, 02:29:01 am »

Take a breath Ladies. This is an entirely volunteer outlet. Of course there must be some sort of format. But lets try to appreciate the value of a volunteers time to add value.
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Captain Ted
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« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2015, 03:03:54 am »

One wonders what a simple comment can cause !!!!!

btw,,I don,t like box boats either,,special like recently the MSC Zoe where over 50 pictures were uploaded
in a rather short time, BUT one thing stands out,,,THEY ARE TAKEN BY THE POSTERS !!!

 
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NOW!!!,,,if we could get rid of the sailors,,how safe shipping would be !!!!!!!!
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