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Author Topic: Name of ship with apostrophe  (Read 5262 times)
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Christian Herrou
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« on: October 09, 2014, 01:24:42 pm »

Hello

There is a "new" french frigate replica named L'Hermione but the apostrophe is not so easy in English name.

Then for this ship there is actually minimum 3 ways to classified her on Shipspotting

This one is wrong as no L on the name - L is without doubt the first letter of her name - then for example on AIS she's LHERMIONE 

http://www.shipspotting.com/gallery/search.php?query=hermione+&x=27&y=8

That one is may be the solution with a space between L and H

http://www.shipspotting.com/gallery/search.php?query=L+Hermione&x=25&y=2

I've try myself the French way apostrophe and I don't know what's wrong with a / 

http://www.shipspotting.com/gallery/photo.php?lid=2121652

Off course it's a "normal" problem with foreign language like the æ for Emma Mærsk or the Ø for Østensjø  - the main purpose of my message is to find a solution for the ship to have all these picture in the same data.

Kindest regards

Xtian Herrou 

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Bjørn Knudsen
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« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2014, 01:56:50 pm »

Hello
I use Windows and maybe this can help: http://www.irontech.no/interface/tastatur.html
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Don't worry be happy                    Regards Knudde
Christian Herrou
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« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2014, 02:53:42 pm »

Hello

Thanks Bjørn, I do the same ie for your name. 

In fact the main purpose of my message is trying fo find a solution for L'Hermione to avoid dispersion of pictures of one boat in several places here in Shipspotting because the name is sometimes not written properly and sometimes not taken into account because of the apostrophe.

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Pilot Frans
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« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2014, 04:50:05 pm »

Same problem with carcarrier L'Audace.
Is also mentioned on in several ways.

see:
http://www.shipspotting.com/gallery/photo.php?lid=961845

when clicking on title: L'Audace the search engine will come back with no photos found.

This minor problem exist already some years.
Let the team first sort out the major things and give them some time.. Smiley

regards
Frans Sanderse
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Anton Heuff
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« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2014, 05:21:47 pm »

Hi Christian,

This is far from easy to decide, because the crux is safeguarding that a computer data base will find the ship. In principle a computer can "read" an apostrophe. But this depends on the data base software on the one hand, and the text of the querie on the other hand.

Your forum topic rightly focusses on the source of possible problems: what is a consistent way of writing a ship's name with an apostrophe. I would say: write it the French way, the other two variants which you present will only add to the confusion.

I tried Equasis and found that this date bases can handle queries with an apostrophe (no surprise: Equasis is developed and hosted by the French Ministry for Transport!). The apostrophe is the same symbol as the single right quotation mark when we are word processing (same key on your keyboard). Be warned that Windows software and/or your keyboard may from time to time fail to generate the right symbol and instead of an apostrophe thre will appear an accent aigue on your screen. Uusually the mix-up isn't noticed at all; I saw accents a number of times in photo headers here on Shipspotting where an apostrophe was intented. By the same token be careful when typing your querie.

I queried for L'Austral (IMO 9502518) in Equasis and Shipspotting:

In Equasis the use of the ' (straight, not curled single right quotation mark) will yield the desired answer, in Shipspotting the same (copied) phrase yields a "No photos found").

All the best,

Anton






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davidships
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« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2014, 05:27:18 pm »

This is not always a problem - it depends on the software.  On some '/-é etc work, on others they don't. I've a feeling this has been discussed here before; but it would be worth asking the tech team for an up-to-date on what is  or isn't possible (of course, when they are able to find time for this reltively minor issue).

I do think that the idea of translating part of the name into English is the worst of all worlds, and nobody would think of looking for this ship under "T". But I do think, if "L'" cannot work, that another of Ken's suggestions - L HERMIONE - is perhaps the best bet. Undoubtedly whatever we do will cause some confusion, and create a need for tidying up by the moderators from time to time.

Oddly, I was thinking about ths only yesterday in relation to the hopper L'AIGLE (IMO 9303326) - though the photo turned out too poor to show here. Of course the IMO number finds the two existing photos straight away - but for a name search only the advanced search "anywhere" option finds them, and the French minesweeper of the same name.

David
« Last Edit: October 09, 2014, 05:29:02 pm by davidships » Report to moderator   Logged
Christian Herrou
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« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2014, 06:19:09 pm »

Hello

Thank you for your answers, off course Frans it's a minor problem, looking to the Shipspotting black-out last week, I hope the team will first sort out the major things ! I'm so happy with Shipspotting coming back : thanks to all people involved

First thing is about LE - LA and L' for french ship name.  There is no real rule to add or not the prefix with the name.

But it's absolutly sure : on some ships the prefix is a real part of the ship name.  Written on the hull, on the paper, on the seaman hat ...  

http://www.shipspotting.com/gallery/photo.php?lid=1200289

About L'Hermione the info coming from Wikipedia is wrong, and you have the same mistake for many ships when translated to English as people react as Ken : thinking  LA is for THE  

Have a look to English Wikipedia for the french nuclear submarine - all French SSBN have LE as part of the name

wikipedia in French  http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Triomphant_(sous-marin)

wikipedia in english with the mistake : no more Le http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_submarine_Triomphant_(S616)

just for fun : Japanese are right http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%AB%E3%83%BB%E3%83%88%E3%83%AA%E3%82%AA%E3%83%B3%E3%83%95%E3%82%A1%E3%83%B3_(%E5%8E%9F%E5%AD%90%E5%8A%9B%E6%BD%9C%E6%B0%B4%E8%89%A6)

A part removed of the complete name is not satisfactory isn't ?

For LE and LA it's easy. Obviously some peope made mistake with removal of the prefix and ship pictures are lost on shipspotting as some when people made mistake with the name.

For the apostrophe may we have to made a "rule"  may be with a space after the L as here : it works

 http://www.shipspotting.com/gallery/search.php?query=L+Hermione&x=25&y=2

or maybe with nothing like LHERMIONE on AIS : it works 

https://www.marinetraffic.com/fr/ais/details/ships/228052600/vessel:LHERMIONE?_=efc8bb7cce259b9a878c277bbef37dc6

David, I agree with you, and you know what, the next shio I will be aboard is the minesweeper L'Aigle

I've just read the last Ken message, yes I agree with you it coud be a good temporary solution with the space.   

Best regards

Xtian 
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