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Author Topic: Loosing focus ?, Shipspotting or post anything from anywhere  (Read 25136 times)
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Captain Ted
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« on: December 08, 2013, 10:38:17 pm »

I know I may poking into a wasps nest, and I am not attempting to put peoples works and efforts down but when I look over the last month,s of up loaded pictures I wonder if this web site is still about shipspotting (going out and take the pictures in real) or about re-posting from other web sites or libraries or any other sources. I can see that a lot pictures and ships with historical value should be preserved and also have a place to be posted. But doesn,t it get a little much that the majority of pictures are not taken by the posters but somehow reposted be it from collections in private hands or from libraries and other sources.
I also realise that a lot work is put into preserving them, touch them up, post them and so on, but lately I think the focus of this web site getting lost . Not spotting anymore but posting ?
I know there were a lot discussions about it before and also fighting, so please if you read
it and comment on it, discuss it,but not accuse/fight whatever it. THANKS

Am I the only one who see,s it that way ?


 
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Cornelia Klier
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« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2013, 02:20:59 pm »

Ted, you are indeed raising a valid point and I personally agree with you 100 % there. I have also discussed this with one of the webmaster, and of course the ones who run this site, decide which way it will go.

I personally say, this site is called "shipspotting" and that has not much to do with reposting and also not with scanning photos from libraries.

I once said, that many of these photos are also very important documents of shipping, but their place is more a site like www.shipnostalgia.com or a similar one, of relevant topic, but not on a site that is dedicated to shipspotting.

That is one side.

On the other side, I am also happy to see old photos of a ship I am looking up, and at that moment I do not care, whether it is scanned or reposted, but of course I prefer the ones, that are taken by someone "just so" at sea.

I find it very difficult, with photos for example - someone knows a few seamen who take photo, and is asked to post them here, so that person is posting photos of other people there, but very often interesting photos, which otherwise could not be seen ?

It is a difficult question, I know !

Of course it is interesting, what people here think, because we all are making this forum, what it is Smiley
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PWR
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« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2013, 02:37:13 pm »

I have over a year been submitting old photos taken by Charlie Hill because he cannot do it himself. He is 85years young and has taken photos since 1950 and he asked me to put these on this site so everyone can enjoy them. So I hope I am doing no wrong
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davidships
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« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2013, 03:30:17 pm »

Just as a contribution to the debate here and within the management, I think that the ethos of the site would best be maintained if all submissions must be either taken by the submitter, or being submitted at the specific request of the photographer - as in the case of Charlie Hill's photos or the examples given by Cornelia (in all these cases, the photographer could themselves be an activew member of the site if their own circumstances were a little different). 

I too agree that those taking time, skill and dedication to recupoerating many very fine old photographs, whether of antique images from public collections or more recent acquired material, are doing an important job for the shipping researcher and enthusiast.  But, as has been said already, there are other sites and print publications which have a stronger focus on that.

Looking forward to your announcement, Ken, in due course.

David
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Jens Boldt
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« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2013, 03:55:39 pm »

As long as a photo isn't already in the public domain and can't be found elsewhere on the internet for everyone to enjoy and use, it should be allowed here.
I mean (as PWR gave this example), it would be a pity if such a collection would be fading away in private photo albums...

But I can see no necessity in uploading photos here which are in the public domain already and which can be found on other websites for everyone to enjoy and use as one pleases...

Just my personal opinion.

Cheers,
Jens
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Patrick Hill
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« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2013, 07:16:14 pm »

I appreciate the comments about collections, but my collection is my photos taken as a ship spotter over the years. Due to circumstances I cannot be as active as I used to be taking photos but I am still and always have been a ship spotter. SN has it's place but the site isn't for me, this site covers my era of photography so why not post? Unless the site owners suddenly need to clear space, where do you draw the line? If you didn't take the photo this day/week/month/year it's not valid? I look forward to the announcement when it comes with baited breath...
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Captain Ted
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« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2013, 07:41:34 pm »

hi patrick

I think you should re-read my post, I did not talk about pictures which are taken by the photographer itself and I don,t for that matter talk about old pictures. I talk about pictures which coming from other websites or from libraries or any other public domain. This site started as a site where peoples who take pictures of ships can post them,,lately it became a site where you can post any ship with no regard from where the pictures coming and how the real copy right sits or who owns them.
Those picture sure have a place in history of shipping and a lot people doing superb touch up and preservation jobs on them, but somehow they totally replacing the intent of this site, to take pictures of ships and post them. I also have at least another 2-3000 pictures , which I took over the years, and I don,t see a problem why I or in your case you can not post them here.
 
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davidships
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« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2013, 08:55:39 pm »

I do hope, Derek, that this is being considered on a broader basis that just the narrow copyright question (important though that is).  Capt Ted's opener is really about what the site should be used for, rather than what might be legal.  As it happens, my own preference would remove all copright doubts at one fell swoop.
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Captain Ted
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« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2013, 09:08:42 pm »

hi derek and ken

I have no problems whatsoever with pictures uploaded for someone or the clear copyright/ok ,stated.Like someone stated here the one who owns it is already 85 and not able to do it.
And surely no problems with guys like Patrick who posts pictures which he made years back,, I will most probably one of the guys who have the same problems in years hopefully to come.

But I have more and more problems with pictures which are not own and/or clearly visible not own but from public domains. There are places elsewhere they fit right in and the efforts to do so is not small either, but somehow I feel that all the peoples who go week in and week out to some places, sometimes travel considerable time to get there are really pushed out of this site

All what I meant is that the site loosing the focus. I know a whole bunch of people like me
who really only posting own pictures and reading past statements and those now here, I think I have a good valid point about the focus. With no word I diminish the importence of old pictures and also the ones of Patrick,,I mean it does not matter if I post pictures from 3 years or 5 years or more back if they are mine. Ok it is not spotting in the sense of when the ship is there, but at least I was the photographer.
My whole point is more about loosing the direction.
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steve55
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« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2013, 09:09:14 pm »

My thanks to Charlie Hill and PWR for the Humber,Goole pictures of many many coasters of which i sailed on,back then a camera did not seem an important piece of gear to carry around with you,guess we thought those days would never end or something,great memories. These pics are a valuable part of this site and what makes it so special.regards Steve55
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Richard Paton
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« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2013, 09:45:13 pm »

Personally as a youngster (although tomorrow i turn 38 eek!) i enjoy looking at the old photos that are posted from a by gone era when i was not around.

The line in the sand should be it must be the posters own photo/owned copyright, or posted with permission from the photo's original copyright holder. Photos outside this simple criteria should be excluded from the site.

Otherwise rename site ShipArchive.com and leave it at that!... Tongue

Richard
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Alan Green
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« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2013, 10:24:55 pm »

How I agree with Steve55: If I knew then what I know now !
The shipping photos and memories I would have captured from the places I have worked.

Given the comments that are being raised in this current thread could I ask what could be considered an associated question:

Photographer A waits to get a clear shot of a vessel so that it is not obscured by yachts, obstructions, etc. - sometimes to the extent that they actually miss the shot, the light changes, etc. but at least they have the " true " image.

Photographer B is standing next to Photographer A but only takes one shot of the vessel with no regard to the same yachts, obstructions, etc. goes home, loads up Photoshop or an equivalent editing suite and gets to work on manipulating the image, resulting in an " untrue " image.

What are fellow contributors thoughts ?
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sandygates
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« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2013, 10:29:59 pm »

I find myself 100 percent with Capt. Ted on this one.
I have no quibble with members posting oldie photos that they have inherited because the original photographer has passed away or is unable to post themselves. I do not, however, go along with pictures (no matter how interesting) from long-dead photographers that have been trawled from museum collections around the world. Most these photos can anyway be downloaded by anyone, direct and at high-resolution, from the museum sites if they care to make the effort.
BTW: the Shipsnostalgia site would not accept most of these "trawled" photos on this site that I (and Cornelia) refer to.
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Captain Ted
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« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2013, 10:46:12 pm »

@ Alan Green

then you can also ask if photographer A goes out in rain and sleet
and Photographer B goes not but takes a picture from the net somewhere
and he posts it just because he "wanted" to go and take the picture but
weather prevented him.
Taking things in the forefront out of the pictures,, I don,t see a reason why not when it does not affect the shape/form of the ship and the site guide lines ,intended to post.

brgds
capt ted
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Jens Boldt
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« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2013, 10:50:19 pm »

Hi Allen,

with regard to your associated question, I can give an example. As it turned out I seem to have forgotten to delete the original (true) photo:-))
So in this case I'm Photographer A AND B, I think...

Have a look at the first and the third photo here
http://www.shipspotting.com/gallery/search.php?search_imo=7811484&search_uid=19589

Cheers,
Jens
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