Author Topic: USS Guardian stuck on reef  (Read 11814 times)

Offline ChasB46

  • Top Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 962
    • View Profile
USS Guardian stuck on reef
« on: January 18, 2013, 10:01:07 AM »
Minesweeper USS Guardian stuck on coral reef in Phillipines.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21072275
Environmental group Greenpeace was fined almost $7,000 (
« Last Edit: January 27, 2013, 08:29:39 PM by ChasB46 »

Offline Kelvin Davies

  • Top Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,649
    • View Profile
    • http://kelvindavies.co.uk/
Re: USS Guardian stuck on reef
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2013, 10:33:36 AM »
Chas,
Things don't seem to be getting any better.
A friend in the Philippines tells me that the Philippines Coastguard/ park rangers challenged the Guardian when she was headed for the reef, the response was to sound general quarters and threaten to "take action" if they didn't go away.
The Captain told the Filipinos to "take their complaint to the US Embassy" and refused them permission to board to inspect permits etc.
Then came the bump!
The US Navy have blamed a "faulty digital chart". And this is a mine hunting vessel stuffed full of sonar etc. Paper charts also apparently have big warnings. On January 19th the US Navy warned their ships to "operate with caution" when using digital charts and to always compare these with paper charts. (How about using the paper charts to begin with?).
Five days later, they said their digital charts are fine, with only 2 errors detected (the other is off the coast of Chile).
NOAA charts show quite clearly "0.5m to 1.5m of water over the reef at high tide".
http://www.panbo.com/assets_c/2013/01/NOAA_DNC_Tubbataha_Reefs_screenshot_cPanbo-6834.html
In this Youtube video, you can see the ship appears to be in around 1m of water, parts of the hull are shredded and even the propeller is totally banjaxed:
http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/video/149542/stateofthenation/pagsita-ng-park-rangers-sa-us-navy-sa-pagpasok-nito-sa-tubbataha-reef-nakunan-ng-video

Now, despite having a small fleet of ships on site, it seems the US Navy have given up on the ship and plans are being considered to break up the ship on site.

Offline GFDpeterbilt

  • Just popping in
  • Posts: 5
    • View Profile
Re: USS Guardian stuck on reef
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2013, 06:19:23 AM »
The ship is not going to be broken up, Smit Salvage is going to lift it off the reef. The 1,000 mt cpacity sheerlegs "Smit Cyclone" and the Salvage vessel "Smit Borneo" with 500 ton capacity crane are on the way to the location now, will arrive about Jan 30th and lift the minesweeper off the reef and onto a barge or HLV for transport to the USA.

Offline davidships

  • Webmaster
  • Top Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,344
    • View Profile
Re: USS Guardian stuck on reef
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2013, 09:59:57 AM »
Yes, Kelvin, an appalling incident.   Incompetence exceeded only by arrogance.

http://tubbatahareef.org/news/622
http://rt.com/usa/news/us-navy-coral-reef-523/

Offline GFDpeterbilt

  • Just popping in
  • Posts: 5
    • View Profile
Re: USS Guardian stuck on reef
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2013, 01:31:26 AM »
Now it looks like it will be lifted in pieces, damage is much worse than was reported, Smit is going to remove it in pieces now... my bet is in as big a "piece" or pieces as possible. I guess the little ship is not worth so much, being 25 years old and with a wooden hull.The concern is the reef of course. Those big cranes will be able to stay in deeper water and make lighter picks to remove it.

Offline Mike

  • Home away from home
  • ****
  • Posts: 488
    • View Profile
Re: USS Guardian stuck on reef
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2013, 09:37:28 PM »
She's going to be one big pile of very expensive scrap!!

They have taken the easy way out and will just cut her up

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2270395/U-S-Navy-hack-61million-minesweeper-ship-pieces-remove-sensitive-reef-near-Philippines.html

Mike

Archivist for the Colvic Watson Owners Group

Offline Kelvin Davies

  • Top Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,649
    • View Profile
    • http://kelvindavies.co.uk/
Re: USS Guardian stuck on reef
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2013, 10:33:53 PM »
Mike,
Pretty much what I reported 4 or 5 days ago.
If my experience (from decades ago on a Ton class minesweeper!) is anything to go by, it may be a bit more tricky than one may think. The first tricky bit is the hull. It is not merely a wooden hull; it is more of a fibre glass hull with a wooden cladding.
Next there is the degaussing cables. These are cables as thick as your forearm and very difficult to deal with. To get these out, we had to squeeze between the hull and the fuel tanks (which apparently leaked as we came out covered in the stuff!)
And all this in about 3 feet of water!
Kelvin

Offline holedrille

  • Just can't stay away
  • ***
  • Posts: 120
    • View Profile
Re: USS Guardian stuck on reef
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2013, 09:05:25 AM »
Surely a wooden hull with fibreglass cladding?
Holedriller

Offline Kelvin Davies

  • Top Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,649
    • View Profile
    • http://kelvindavies.co.uk/
Re: USS Guardian stuck on reef
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2013, 09:57:58 AM »
You are right.
I must have had my head on backwards!
Kelvin

Offline Kelvin Davies

  • Top Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,649
    • View Profile
    • http://kelvindavies.co.uk/
Re: USS Guardian stuck on reef
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2013, 08:54:52 AM »
The previous point re wooden hull/fibre glass cladding may now be a moot point.
A photograph in the Philippines media shows the fibre glass cladding has been gradually stripped away, presumably by the weather, as salvage operations have still not yet started.
http://www8.gmanews.tv/webpics/v3/2013/02/640_ZZZ_020113_1_b.jpg
Now the Philippines Coast Guard has raised a question about Smit Borneo. Basically, they are saying "And where do you propose to anchor? We don't want even more damage done to the reef by the salvage vessels".
The salvage team last night offered to anchor the crane ships up to 1 Kilometre away, presumably in the very deep water (2,500 feet) on the reef edge.
Filipino fishermen are now asking why the Filipino government promised to bring charges against those responsible, yet allowed them all to fly back to their home port in Japan.
Kelvin

Offline davidships

  • Webmaster
  • Top Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,344
    • View Profile
Re: USS Guardian stuck on reef
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2013, 11:10:20 AM »
Some expensive short-cut!  No doubt to be deducted from salaries and pensions of those found to be culpable.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Smit Salvage, Singapore, was awarded on Feb. 1, 2013, a $24,889,904 delivery order against previously awarded indefinite-delivery/indefinite-quantity, cost-plus-award-fee contract (N00024-12-D-4120) to provide support for emergency response and recovery operations for the USS Guardian (MCM 5) grounding on Tubbataha Reef, Sulu Sea, Philippines.

[Marine Log] Full article at http://www.marinelog.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3567:smit-awarded-249-million-for-work-on-grounded-minesweeper&catid=1:latest-news&Itemid=195

Offline holedrille

  • Just can't stay away
  • ***
  • Posts: 120
    • View Profile
Re: USS Guardian stuck on reef
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2013, 04:54:23 PM »
It is really strange the way the fibreglass layer appears to be peeling off the wood, if that is what is happening. The wood appears to be hardwood, with strips laid in a diagonal direction, like the old Fairmile and Fairy WW2 hulls. I guess there is another layer going the other way underneath. Why is it peeling off? Is the hull twisting and breaking the bond!
Holedriller

Offline atonman

  • Newcomer
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
Re: USS Guardian stuck on reef
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2013, 09:04:45 PM »
From what i have read the hull is twisting from the wave action. The latest is they will have to wait until the other crane barge arrives 15 Feb. The weather is playing a nasty role in this scrapping.

NOTE: The charts the ship was using were digital and the question is whether or not they received the updated chart or were aware to replace the existing one. The maker of those digital charts and the USN were aware of the deficiencies in the old chart of the area.

In any case the Co and Navigation Officer are on the hot seat!   

Regards

Offline Captain Ted

  • Top Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,996
    • View Profile
Re: USS Guardian stuck on reef
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2013, 01:47:45 AM »
Re: Paper charts versa Electronic charts (ECDIS)

ECDIS is proven a big accident creator, not only because that they are often incorrect
but also for the fact that they were initial pushed more or less unregulated onto ships.
As usually that happened because when groundings/collisons etc occured the look out was just making coffee and the OOW was just on the toilet, in reality they were because of minimum crews aboard fatigue and tired and fell asleep. Then more electronic came (as usual, more electronic, more safe,,also when the opposite is the fact) in the form of ECDIS and crew had to deal with them untrained. To make it worst, the IMO members
and the manufacturers could not settle on one system. so from ship to ship and company to company everything was different. Even today, OOW,s have to be trained TYPE specific !!!
If they get trained at all.

As for replacing the ECDIS with paper charts,,that,s exactly what ECDIS did replacing the paper charts !!!! All paper charts will be gone by about 2020. Then they will be also not there anymore as back up !!!!
By then I am retired,,THANKS GOD !!!!!

NOW!!!,,,if we could get rid of the sailors,,how safe shipping would be !!!!!!!!

Offline N3lsoN

  • Just popping in
  • Posts: 8
    • View Profile
Re: USS Guardian stuck on reef
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2013, 08:42:31 PM »
Re: Paper charts versa Electronic charts (ECDIS)

ECDIS is proven a big accident creator, not only because that they are often incorrect
but also for the fact that they were initial pushed more or less unregulated onto ships.
As usually that happened because when groundings/collisons etc occured the look out was just making coffee and the OOW was just on the toilet, in reality they were because of minimum crews aboard fatigue and tired and fell asleep. Then more electronic came (as usual, more electronic, more safe,,also when the opposite is the fact) in the form of ECDIS and crew had to deal with them untrained. To make it worst, the IMO members
and the manufacturers could not settle on one system. so from ship to ship and company to company everything was different. Even today, OOW,s have to be trained TYPE specific !!!
If they get trained at all.

As for replacing the ECDIS with paper charts,,that,s exactly what ECDIS did replacing the paper charts !!!! All paper charts will be gone by about 2020. Then they will be also not there anymore as back up !!!!
By then I am retired,,THANKS GOD !!!!!

Captain Ted,

mostly right. But even the most experienced and well-trained navigator can make a mistake when forced to handle to much information at the same time or make decisions with insufficient informations. Another high risk of ECDIS is that the operator can overlay information on ECDIS, but can also overlay information on the radar. There are some more significant weak points of ECDIS. But thats another story.

Adapted from an American Marine Incident Investigation:

 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk