Author Topic: ship sinking 100KM of Rotterdam  (Read 43558 times)

Offline Robert Smith

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Re: ship sinking 100KM of Rotterdam
« Reply #45 on: December 06, 2012, 10:05:12 PM »
At the time I took pictures of the CMA CGM Alsska myself and noted the double hull. But that's not my point. Overworked, underpaid and sometimes unqualified mariners navigate short sea vessels often flying foc in the world's busiest waters and nobody addresses that issue. The Dutch "KLPD"  boarded the "Corvus J." at Flushing roads today. They were met on board by a lawyer; no statements were made by captain or crew. After 2 hours the "investigation" was considered closed. A spokesman said that the Dutch have no jurisdiction because a) the accident happened in int'l waters and b) it is up to the flagstates to take action. Now compare this lacklustre performance to an airplane crash. Meanwhile another 11 mariners lost their lives.....

Brgds,



« Last Edit: December 06, 2012, 10:07:57 PM by Robert Smith »

Offline Captain Ted

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Re: ship sinking 100KM of Rotterdam
« Reply #46 on: December 07, 2012, 12:05:51 AM »
Robert
good point
but one thing is good and smart
1) no statement
the reason why I say that is look around the world, the moment an accident happens they jail the Capt.
If I ever have something like that,,all what they here from me,,name/rank and I want a lawyer!!!!,,,  like a prisoner of war,,what virtually Capt,s become in such cases,, Look now the issue in spain with the capt of the Erika,,the spanish gov denied a ship help and they blame the Capt,,
The whole European coast is full of countries where totally incompetent authorities run the show with no resposibilties whatsoever (max what can happen to them getting transfered)
while the Master of a ship goes to jail or at least gets detained in the country where it happened.  Seen from that point,, whoever is at fault can be glad that it happened in international waters because at least they can,t jail him ,,at least for now !!!
The maritime business,,special after accidents happen is a FARCE and all what the public wants is a GUILTY and the media the same,,,
Something will happen one day,,but we are years off from solving these matters,,,as long as sailors are automatic criminials when something goes wrong nobody has to wonder then when they lawer up the moment something goes wrong

NOW!!!,,,if we could get rid of the sailors,,how safe shipping would be !!!!!!!!

Offline ugamskjaer

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Re: ship sinking 100KM of Rotterdam
« Reply #47 on: December 07, 2012, 08:34:42 AM »
Not get rid of sailors ...But get rid of low payment and pure education !!!! >:(

Offline victor radio74

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Re: ship sinking 100KM of Rotterdam
« Reply #48 on: December 07, 2012, 09:43:03 AM »
Hi Capt Ted,as a matter of information the trial of the PRESTIGE case(not the ERIKA,it was in France)is taking place now ,after 10 years of the accident
brgds

Offline polsteam

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Re: ship sinking 100KM of Rotterdam
« Reply #49 on: December 07, 2012, 10:31:13 AM »
further to video that emerged...


I. what I found elsewhere:

CAPT. D. Peter Boucher, MN(Ret.) says:
December 6, 2012 at 3:55 pm
The video shows both ship tracks until about 0.20 secs. then it jumps forward to apparently after the impact took place. The Corvus J is shown as a southerly bound vessel which alters her course to her starboard (right) in compliance with Rule 15 of the Nautical Rules of the Road. There is then the jump at 0.20 secs and the northerly bound Baltic Ace is shown pointing NW (approx.) indicating that she could have altered course to her port (left) in a clear violation of the Nautical Rules of the Road. It is also reported that the Corfus J had severe bow damage which could be a further indication of the two ships relative position at impact. We shall have to wait until a complete AIS video is made available and/or the European Union Marine Accident Investigators complete their inquiries.
Good Watch.



II. my opinion expressed earlier (before I found the above):

judging from:

1. this "video" (I would think it should be interpreted in another way comparing to how it is explained by "Maritime Bulletin" / Odin website)

and

2. the fact that Corvus J has had its bow bulb twisted TO THE RIGHT

... I would think that:

1. Corvus J MADE a proper turn (to right) to avoid collision

2. Baltic Ace MADE a turn as well (to the left), while she should continue to proceed on its previous coyurse

the above resulted with the fact that Baltic Ace gave its STARBOARD side to be hit
(instead of PORT - what we would expect, judging from the initial courses of both ships)

Corvus J bulb is twisted to the RIGHT because the hit Baltic Ace's side was moving (in relation to Corvus J bow) to the right while being hit
if we assume that Baltic Ace was moving forward (not backwards) then the above means (most probably) that BALTIC Ace was hit in its RIGHT (starboard) side, while turning hard to port during last minutes or seconds before collision

IF the vehicle carrier would have been hit in its PORT side, then the containership's bulb would (most probably) have to be twisted to the LEFT


despite using "polsteam" for my nick I have NO personal (professional) or business connections with the company of the same name

Offline Kai R

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Re: ship sinking 100KM of Rotterdam
« Reply #50 on: December 07, 2012, 12:07:49 PM »
nobody has to give testimonial against onesself. It is a right to remain silent and very wise to do so, facing any kind of legal investigation.


Offline Captain Ted

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Re: ship sinking 100KM of Rotterdam
« Reply #51 on: December 07, 2012, 01:50:43 PM »
Victor
you are right
I mixed the ships names, I meant the Prestige
guess a alzheimer moment :-)

thanks for pointing out

brgds
capt ted
NOW!!!,,,if we could get rid of the sailors,,how safe shipping would be !!!!!!!!

Offline Niall Magner

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Re: ship sinking 100KM of Rotterdam
« Reply #52 on: December 07, 2012, 02:39:33 PM »
No AIS signal from Corvus J. Is she still anchored off Vlissingen?

DanEarl

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Re: ship sinking 100KM of Rotterdam
« Reply #53 on: December 07, 2012, 04:01:39 PM »
According to marine traffic she is still at anchor.

Regards,

Dan.

Offline michael-taal

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Re: ship sinking 100KM of Rotterdam
« Reply #54 on: December 07, 2012, 07:10:10 PM »
some pics from the damaged Corvus-J seen at Vlissingen from the KNRM vessel from Breskens




Offline Niall Magner

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Re: ship sinking 100KM of Rotterdam
« Reply #55 on: December 07, 2012, 11:45:11 PM »
She will need a new bulbous bow. Obviously a job for Damen Repair Schiedham

Offline Fred Vloo

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Re: ship sinking 100KM of Rotterdam
« Reply #56 on: December 08, 2012, 10:10:53 AM »
Quote
The whole European coast is full of countries where totally incompetent authorities run the show with no resposibilties whatsoever
Unquote

Hey Teddy, you are so boooooring.

Have fun
Fred

Offline Ronald George Halliday

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Re: ship sinking 100KM of Rotterdam
« Reply #57 on: December 08, 2012, 11:27:59 AM »
Just a thought, i see what happened on AIS, and yes it is a sad tragic loss of life again. But instead of playing the blame game, just think what is going on in the minds of the people that created this incident. And just consider that they will have to live with it for the rest of their lives.

These incidents take place nearly every night in congested waterways. Mistakes should not be made if people observed the Colregs correctly.

Thank You.

Offline Captain Ted

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Re: ship sinking 100KM of Rotterdam
« Reply #58 on: December 08, 2012, 03:07:37 PM »
Hey Fred
at least we are then in the same league !!!

when you work a while in my profession you may come to the same conclusion.
But generally all over,, oil spill in the Gulf comes to mind,, 5-6 agencies involved and recently came a report how they hindered each other instead of helping. So it is not
only EU,, I said it because of recent accident which happen there.
That you don,t agree with me is nothing new, since I put my stand out to shoot pirates instead of pampering them :-))
so relax,,you have your opinion and I mine.
brgds
capt ted
NOW!!!,,,if we could get rid of the sailors,,how safe shipping would be !!!!!!!!

Offline Captain Ted

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Re: ship sinking 100KM of Rotterdam
« Reply #59 on: December 08, 2012, 03:16:52 PM »
Ronald
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<,,,
These incidents take place nearly every night in congested waterways. Mistakes should not be made if people observed the Colregs correctly
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

totally in agreement with you, beside "following the COLREGS correctly" . With not only traffic increased over the years, it is also the speed, years back 12-14kn vessels were considered quick,,now most big boxers going easy 25 kn and feeders also in the range of 18-20 kn . One misjudgement and the accident is there. Nobody likes it but it is reality. The other big factor is the time (ETA,s !!) Boxers are often on sheduled berthing slots and if they miss that slot, the ship waits
hours and then the blame game starts there between charterer/ship/terminals. This makes some peoples taking short cuts, not only by distance but also by narrow down the safe passing distances or overtaking in 1 cable instead of 2-3 or more etc etc.
It is all one big circle which on the end comes down to money overrules safety.
NOW!!!,,,if we could get rid of the sailors,,how safe shipping would be !!!!!!!!

 

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