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Author Topic: MSC Flaminia  (Read 68103 times)
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PHa
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« Reply #45 on: September 06, 2012, 10:10:49 am »

@ brimar: Actual (12:06 UTC+1) no AIS-Signal from MSC FLAMINIA available. And no AIS-signals from any tugs involved with this salvage. Very Strange.

As per Maritime Bulletin of "odin" the situation is as follows:

quote
September 6 morning: MSC Flaminia and tugs passed the narrowest part of English Channel, Strait of Dover, and entered North sea. Belgium Coast Guard ship SPN 09 and Navy ship Stern are escorting the convoy.
unquote

But also no AIS from belgian Ready Duty Ship "STERN A 963" and Belgian coastguard ship "SPN 09".
brgds
Peter
« Last Edit: September 06, 2012, 10:21:46 am by Peter Hartung » Report to moderator   Logged
Captain Ted
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« Reply #46 on: September 06, 2012, 10:55:16 am »

what I don,t get,,why it is so important that AIS don,t show or not ? To keep the gossip going ?  To make sure that wild stories keep circulating ?
I mean it is nothing new to the shipping industrie that containers are virtually uncontrolled loaded, because if it would be controlled and loaded as per regulation (ISPS: Master and crew have to assure that containers a checked before loaded !!! more or less in that workding) ships would be days in port,,if not weeks.
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NOW!!!,,,if we could get rid of the sailors,,how safe shipping would be !!!!!!!!
brimar
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« Reply #47 on: September 06, 2012, 12:51:26 pm »

Ha Ha Capt Ted,I just knew you would take the bait and i'll reel you in when public AIS was mentioned on this thread .
         No not looking to ciculate wild stories but just simply interested in the progress of the vessel. I like the majority of members on this Thread are as the site is named 'Shipspotting' and this thread is a forum about the MSC Flaminia. Public AIS is freely available to watch the progress of this vessel whether you like it or not.
 
        Most members on this site are aware of your disapproval of 'PUBLIC AIS' which you have voiced on previous threads and I respect your reasons for that, however please don't 'Tar everyone with the same brush'  as 'Wild Story Hunters' when an item of real shipping interest comes to the forefront.
        I do hasten to add Capt Ted that the opening sentence to my post was written in a light hearted way and hope that you took it in that context.I will also add that I find your contributions to this site very interesting and most of all giving a very professional view to the Thread. . .'Keep them coming Sir'
                              Cheers,
                              Brimar   
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miraflores
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« Reply #48 on: September 06, 2012, 02:33:04 pm »

There was all the time an AIS signal of the involved tugs Carlo Magno, Fairmount Expedition and the dutch coast guard vessel ARCA.

http://i46.tinypic.com/vd1xj5.jpg
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Captain Ted
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« Reply #49 on: September 06, 2012, 03:00:43 pm »

Brimar
your point taken,, I dislike the AIS system for the sole reason that it is too often misused,,and not only from common users like here on the site, and here are plenty who use it res[onsibly (Remember the guy who ranted about a tanker for weeks here in a forum !!!)
But,,if you are interested in AIS and reports as such,,watch N24 (german channel TV,,) had a very interesting report on the Concordia,, beside interviews of Cooks/kitchenhelpers/and passengers (which demanded personal attention by the capt during the disaster)not ONE officer/engineer or even the Capt by itself were interviewed. Of course things got terribly wrong there,,no doubts about that,,, but also right,,if the capt would not, as it seems , after the grounding would have kept the ship on the rocks, we might have seens a few hundred or more dead peoples. Remember, only a few cables off the coast is very deep water. A capesizing there would have resulted in a tremendous amount of death!!!!
AIS is partial a good systems,,when used by peoples in the profession where it was designed for. It was not designed and implemented for anyone who could access it via personal computer.
Just imagine, you get a AIS by law into your car and right away the whole world can look where you go, and that all under the umbrella of safety and security. Not with one word was the CONTROLING effect mentioned which it atually is.
 
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« Reply #50 on: September 06, 2012, 05:30:57 pm »

Thanks for your welcome information Capt Ted and your personal views regarding Public AIS which is very fair comment. Cheers
 
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Henning Brauwers
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« Reply #51 on: September 08, 2012, 04:31:38 pm »

Hi,

there was in various forums repeatedly the rumor that AIS on the Tugs & MSC Flaminia had been switched off on purpose, I read it several times. Also on that page of the russian journalist and seafarer.
People have to understand that the range of AIS is limited to something between 15- 60 nm depending on the weather conditions and of the hight of the antennas. Similiar to the range of VHF radio. In the Red Sea you could talk from Bab el mandeb to the entrance of the Gulf of Suez, which is way beyond the normal range. In other area's just within the line of sight. All depending on the weather conditions.





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« Reply #52 on: September 08, 2012, 10:12:22 pm »

As matter of fact,, if I would be in charge of the whole Flaminia operation first I would do declare the AIS as inoperable and switch it off !!!!
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Kelvin Davies
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« Reply #53 on: September 09, 2012, 02:31:39 am »

Whether you like AIS or dislike it, in the case of MSC Flaminia, we seem to be getting into the weird world of conspiracy theories!
The signal, as mentioned above, has gone in and out of range at times. It is available right now, with the convoy steaming west at 2 knots, about 25 miles west of Heligoland.
Henning makes a good point about the range of signals.
I have had problems with radio installations (VHF) in Doha, picking up signals from Pakistan!
And, during the Korean war, my father who was a signalman in the Royal Navy, got into trouble in the North Sea when picking up and passing on radio signals from the wrong ships! He was receiving traffic from many hundreds of miles away and I believe it was one of the first examples encountered of radio tunnelling.
tricky stuff sometimes but I make a living out of it!
Kelvin
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Henning Brauwers
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« Reply #54 on: September 09, 2012, 03:28:12 am »

Hi,

this link : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_Identification_System
explains the system in details. More or less.
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PHa
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« Reply #55 on: September 09, 2012, 08:16:33 am »

As matter of fact,, if I would be in charge of the whole Flaminia operation first I would do declare the AIS as inoperable and switch it off !!!!

Sorry, Capt. Ted. This is a very public matter. Not only of a german shipowner. You should know the frisian tidal shallows from the Netherlands up to Denmark are world heritage of nature full of rare birds, seals and plenty of other animals. And the whole region is the biggest tourist ressort of dutch, german and danish tourist industry. We here all love this great place of the north sea and we are not willing to accept that the tidal shallows to be covered in dirt by a chemicals and oils and other bad stuffs.
Regards
Peter
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« Reply #56 on: September 09, 2012, 12:42:21 pm »

As matter of fact,, if I would be in charge of the whole Flaminia operation first I would do declare the AIS as inoperable and switch it off !!!!
What is it about AIS that you dislike?
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brimar
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« Reply #57 on: September 09, 2012, 01:01:19 pm »

Hi Kasco,
         Just to let you know that I think Capt Ted has already answered your question on a previous post on this thread (post no 49 on sept 6th)
                       Cheers . . Brian   
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« Reply #58 on: September 09, 2012, 01:51:20 pm »

Peter / Kasco

just read above postings,, how often already,, AIS gone,, oh AIS here,,what they doing,, where they going etcetc,,, and all asked/questioned/stated from peoples who in general did seemingly not have even the slightest idea what AIS really was invented for or how it works.
As before said, I don,t dislike AIS in general, I dislike the DOOMSAY theories which are made up by incompetent peoples (i.e. amateurs) who do not have even an idea what in reality
happens but comment on anything what they read or read not into it.
AIS is sure a system which is used by a lot of peoples responsibly but also often not. Look plain at the Concordia disaster , the last passengers were not off the vessel and wild theories based on AIS readings were circulated, also in the forum here.
Let pros handle the case and as long politicans are not involving them (like the Prestige case or the Phallas case at Amrum which both led to final disaster after politicans screwed it up) everything is fine.
One wonders sometimes on certain comments or postings what those peoples see from their living room chairs what the pros seemingly don,t see who dealing with it at the very same moment.
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NOW!!!,,,if we could get rid of the sailors,,how safe shipping would be !!!!!!!!
Robert Smith
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« Reply #59 on: September 09, 2012, 02:36:22 pm »

Well said Capt. Ted !

 Angry
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