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Shipspotters all over the world => Help and Advice => Topic started by: Locate on February 06, 2021, 01:36:21 pm



Title: Unidentified body Isles of Scilly 21 Feb 1979 - Can you help?
Post by: Locate on February 06, 2021, 01:36:21 pm
Good afternoon,

I'm Emma, a volunteer from Locate International. We review unsolved unidentified body and missing persons cases at no cost to families or the police.

Over forty years ago, on the 21st February 1979, a body of a man washed ashore Porth Minick beach on St Mary’s, the largest of the five islands that make up the Isles of Scilly. The islands are located about 40km off the southwestern tip of Cornwall, in the Atlantic Ocean.

The man was believed to have been born amid the world wars and aged between 40 and 60 years old. He had been in the water for up to four months. He was white and about 5ft 4 with dark brown greying hair, wore a two-tone blue and white short sleeved shirt with a woollen Eltex vest underneath.

On the ring finger of his right hand, he wore a gold band, believed to be a wedding ring. The ring had an inscription which read “Georgio and Katrina 1956”.

Despite the passage of time, the man has never been identified.

For the past year, we have focused on the possibility that this man could have been from a ship. We have been obtaining crew lists from shipping disasters to identify any Georgio/Georgios or similar.

So far we have eliminated the following shipping disasters from our enquiries having obtained the crew lists:

MS München (12 Dec 1978)
MV Tenorga (28 Dec 1978)
Betelgeuse (8 Jan 1979)

We have also obtained crew lists for the following shipping disasters and are actively conducting ancestry research into the crew members:

Andros Patria (31 December 1978)
MV Cantonad (4 January 1979)

Can you help us identify any other shipping disasters of interest?

Any help would be much appreciated.

Best wishes

Emma


Title: Re: Unidentified body Isles of Scilly 21 Feb 1979 - Can you help?
Post by: Yvon Perchoc on February 06, 2021, 02:03:03 pm
Good day Madam,

Many ships casualties are reported by year by Lloyd Register on https://hec.lrfoundation.org.uk/archive-library/casualty-returns

But small fishing vessels, naval vessels and pleasure crafts wreckages are not listed.

Note that the body could be also a man over board, without wreckage.

Good luck for your investigations.
Regards,
Yvon



Title: Re: Unidentified body Isles of Scilly 21 Feb 1979 - Can you help?
Post by: Locate on February 06, 2021, 02:08:02 pm
Thank you very much Yvon.

All the best,

Emma


Title: Re: Unidentified body Isles of Scilly 21 Feb 1979 - Can you help?
Post by: Yvon Perchoc on February 06, 2021, 05:23:56 pm
I checked the French weekly newspaper 'Le Marin' for October, November and December 1978 and January 1979.

Except the wreckages of merchant ships :

On December 13th, the french trawler ALCYON disappeared with all hands (10), in the South of Irish Sea. Infortunately, I cannot find the crew list except the master's name. Bodies were never recovered.


The NIELSE DANIELSEN's cook (the article reports NIELLE, I assume NIELSE), falled overboard 20 nautical milles, North of Brittany, on December 23rd 1978.
According to Lloyd Register 1979-80, the shipowner was Rederiet Otto Danielsen (Denmark).
Dansk Illustreret Skiblist 1984 gives the address : Otto Danielsen, Toldbodgade 29, 1253 KOPENHAVN K.
Perhaps Danish members will be able to give more up-to-date contacts.


Regards,
Yvon


Title: Re: Unidentified body Isles of Scilly 21 Feb 1979 - Can you help?
Post by: Locate on February 07, 2021, 11:54:41 am
Thanks Yvon - I'll look into those now.

Best wishes

Emma


Title: Re: Unidentified body Isles of Scilly 21 Feb 1979 - Can you help?
Post by: Yvon Perchoc on February 21, 2021, 03:22:02 pm
Hi,

Please find attached the crew list of the trawler ALCYON.
Apparently no link with the name 'Georgio'.

Regards,
Yvon


Title: Re: Unidentified body Isles of Scilly 21 Feb 1979 - Can you help?
Post by: victor radio74 on February 21, 2021, 04:22:49 pm
Hi,this is a very sensitive matter but could be any relation between the inscription Georgio and the patron name Georges?


Title: Re: Unidentified body Isles of Scilly 21 Feb 1979 - Can you help?
Post by: Locate on February 21, 2021, 04:48:36 pm
Thank you both. What is a patron? Apologies I have limited knowledge in this area. I really appreciate your assistance. Best wishes, Emma


Title: Re: Unidentified body Isles of Scilly 21 Feb 1979 - Can you help?
Post by: Yvon Perchoc on February 21, 2021, 04:57:00 pm
Patron = master (for small vessels)

@Victor radio : I don't know the rules about the names on wedding rings and if it is usual to use a nickname. But you are right, every possibility must be explored.

Regards,
Yvon


Title: Re: Unidentified body Isles of Scilly 21 Feb 1979 - Can you help?
Post by: Locate on February 21, 2021, 05:22:04 pm
Thanks both. I've shared this with the team and we'll now conduct some ancestry research into Georges! Thank you. If there are any other shipping incidents of interest please do let me know. Best wishes, Emma


Title: Re: Unidentified body Isles of Scilly 21 Feb 1979 - Can you help?
Post by: Locate on February 21, 2021, 05:48:51 pm
Hi Yvon,

Do you have a link to the article about the NIELSE DANIELSEN's cook?

Thank you so much!

Emma


Title: Re: Unidentified body Isles of Scilly 21 Feb 1979 - Can you help?
Post by: Locate on February 21, 2021, 06:05:51 pm
This is very interesting...

http://www.shipspotting.com/gallery/photo.php?lid=2996899

We know the inscription on the ring was in Greek. It appears that Nielse Danielsen had a connection with Greece. I wonder how we could find the name of the cook who went overboard?

Best wishes

Emma


Title: Re: Unidentified body Isles of Scilly 21 Feb 1979 - Can you help?
Post by: ChasB46 on February 21, 2021, 06:43:51 pm
Red Otto Danielsen still in being. Contact address on web page   https://ottodanielsen.com/
If they did lose a cook I'm sure records or memories would confirm.
Address = Rederiet Otto Danielsen A/S , Strandvejen 102E, 2900 Hellerup, Denmark


Title: Re: Unidentified body Isles of Scilly 21 Feb 1979 - Can you help?
Post by: Locate on February 21, 2021, 10:24:04 pm
Thank you Chas - that’s really helpful.


Title: Re: Unidentified body Isles of Scilly 21 Feb 1979 - Can you help?
Post by: Yvon Perchoc on February 21, 2021, 10:27:29 pm
Attached the article from the newspaper 'Le Marin' édited 29 Dec 1978.
The link is not free, you need a subscription to access to the archives. Sorry.

Translation :
Saturday morning, 23 December (1978), the Dutch general cargo ship NIELSE DANIELSEN lost one of her crew members, the cook. That's happened in unclear circumstances, at 20 nautical milles North of l'Aber-Wrac'h (North of Brittany). Ships and helicopters tried without success to locate the man. The search was interrupted around 17h00.



Title: Re: Unidentified body Isles of Scilly 21 Feb 1979 - Can you help?
Post by: Locate on February 22, 2021, 08:07:03 am
Yvon, thank you. The team will now search Danish, British, French online newspaper databases (and others) to try and find any further articles with the name of the cook. Thank you so much!


Title: Re: Unidentified body Isles of Scilly 21 Feb 1979 - Can you help?
Post by: Pilot Frans on February 25, 2021, 11:38:36 am
Looking on picture:

http://www.shipspotting.com/gallery/photo.php?lid=2173762#

The Nielse Danielsen is Dutch flagged, With port of Register Hoogezand in the north part of the Netherlands.
Danielsen is/was a Danish companpy so I think Nielse Danielsen was on charter.



Title: Re: Unidentified body Isles of Scilly 21 Feb 1979 - Can you help?
Post by: Pilot Frans on February 25, 2021, 11:49:27 am
Hello Emma,

I found more info on the Nielse Danielsen:

https://www.marhisdata.nl/schip?id=4632

coming to her owner at the time:

https://www.marhisdata.nl/eigenaar&id=5830

Hopes it helps
regards
Frans


Title: Re: Unidentified body Isles of Scilly 21 Feb 1979 - Can you help?
Post by: Locate on February 25, 2021, 11:49:42 am
Thank you.


Title: Re: Unidentified body Isles of Scilly 21 Feb 1979 - Can you help?
Post by: Pilot Frans on February 25, 2021, 11:55:35 am
Further the website:

https://www.kustvaartforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=1391&start=50

QUOTE
In de periode 1980-81 ruilde dhr. TA.Belstra de Oost Atlantic Lijn voor Vertom , Rotterdam. Vertom was al vanaf 1974 een reder (Vera T) maar
begon vanaf 1978 ook een grotere rol te spelen als bevrachtingskantoor.
De Leena werd verkocht , de Karin en Margit gingen naar Vertom.Ook in die periode verkocht OAL de Adine , Atlantic Breeze , Atlantic Island , Atlantic Wave , Adine , en de Atlantic. Een behoorlijke opruiming maar er kwam ook weer wat voor terug. Dhr. Otto Danielsen had vanaf 1978 een nieuwe vloot besteld van 6 schepen op de Nederlandse werven , die werden onder Nederlandse vlag in de vaart gebracht , op papier bij Laurens , Westerpark , Wester Peter , allen thuishaven Hoogezand , maar
zoals eerder vermeld kantoorhoudend aan de Rijksweg W-18 Westerbroek.........jawel..inderdaad...het adres van Scheepswerf EJ.Smit.
De werkelijke administratie werd gedaan bij OAL, Rotterdam.
Ook in 1981 werden 2 schepen aan gekocht van de failliete rederij Bont&Dost te Haren , de Fivel en de Munte , deze werden resp.omgedoopt
in Atlantic Coast en de Atlantic River.
UNQUOTE

This telling that the ships were operated by OOST Atlantic Line, Rotterdam.
This company still exists.
Here is there webpage:

https://atlantic-horizon.nl/en/about-us/oost-atlantic-lijn-eng

regards
Frans







Title: Re: Unidentified body Isles of Scilly 21 Feb 1979 - Can you help?
Post by: Locate on March 01, 2021, 08:40:31 am
Thank you Frans.