ShipSpotting.com Forum

Shipspotters all over the world => Site related news, functions and modules => Topic started by: Marek W on August 17, 2018, 05:33:26 am



Title: Photo composition rules
Post by: Marek W on August 17, 2018, 05:33:26 am
I'm wondering, are close up/isolation photos allowed? I often shoot at 1200mm and get some nice details of anchors being hoisted up but I'm not sure that's allowed in picture posting. Can someone advise please?

Thank you!


Title: Re: Photo composition rules
Post by: Clyde Dickens on August 17, 2018, 06:09:07 am
Marek, you certainly have taken some fine photos.  But for this site we have Site Standards that are monitored by volunteer Admins.

Site standards have criteria that can be met by members with a wide range of experience, camera gear and shipspotting locations. They provide an important element of consistent quality control for the site. In late 2015 they were subject to review with member consultation.

They can be seen by using the Support tab on the Home page, and then clicking on----

SITE STANDARDS THAT APPLY TO ALL PHOTOS

We have site standards to ensure that the Shipspotting site maintains its focus on good images of ships themselves. In addition to these general standards, some categories have specific variations. Please use the Forum to raise any queries, or contact us at webmaster@shipspotting.com

1. Size of image: The resolution must be between 768 x 768 pixels and 4000 x 4000 pixels, and the file size maximum is 4MB.

2. Sharpness: Images must be sharp. In a sharp image, names, windows, cranes and other ship details will be clear. Moderate digital enhancement for sharpness is acceptable, but the image must remain sharp in at least one of medium/full screen/original sizes on a screen of at least 280mm. It is accepted that older images, processed from prints or transparencies may not be as sharp as modern digital photographs.

3. Exposure: All images should be appropriately exposed to show the ship clearly, and without large white or black areas. Silhouettes are not accepted.

4. Level: The horizon must be level and verticals should appear so. The image should be straightened where necessary.

5. Distortion and enhancement: Photos taken with fish eye or other lenses that produce distorted images are not allowed. Black-and-white images are accepted only if that was the original medium; similarly for colour images. All manipulation of digital images should maintain a “natural” contrast and colour. For further guidance on digital enhancement see http://www.shipspotting.com/support/faq.php?category=Photo%20manipulation.

6. Full ships only: For all views except those specifically for part-ship categories, bows, sterns and masts should not be cropped. Bow and stern shots are acceptable if they show the vessel from the waterline to the top of the superstructure.

7. Obstructions: Foreground obstructions should not restrict the view of the ship. Equipment and other vessels that are associated with the normal working of the ship (such as container cranes, tugs or bunkering barges) are acceptable provided they do not dominate the image. For ships alongside quays, the whole length of the ship should be in sight.

8. Main subject: The ship must be the main subject. Distant views where the ship is a small part of the image are not accepted.

9. People: The incidental presence of crew, passengers or shore workers in normal activity (ie not posed) is acceptable. Photographs showing people in the foreground, or others that may invade personal privacy, are not permitted.

10. Borders and watermarks: New digital images should not have added borders. Scanned historic images may retain a border provided it is unobtrusive and not decorative. Watermarks are acceptable provided they are discreet and do not impinge on the ship image. QR electronic codes are not permitted.

<<<<
11. Small boats: Unless in use by the shipping or fishing industries or public authorities, small boats of less than 20 metres/65 feet in length are not accepted.

12. Multiple photos: When posting multiple photos of the same vessel taken on the same Date, the submission must be restricted to a maximum of 4 photographs with a significant change of Aspect/Angle between the photographs.

13. Date and location of photo: These must be included in the Description, if not added from the Location and Date of photo menus on the Upload page.



Title: Re: Photo composition rules
Post by: Marek W on August 17, 2018, 06:19:50 am
I totally missed that! My apologies. Thanks for pointing that out. Much appreciated. And thank you for the kind words. :)


Title: Re: Photo composition rules
Post by: pieter melissen on August 17, 2018, 09:20:51 am
Well, not really wanting to stir up the fire, we may want to ask us the question whether there should not be a way to formulate site standards in such a way that fine shots like that of Marek can find a place here. I remember my second shot I ever posted showed the top of the funnel of a stationary tug of which obviously the bollard pull was being measured. I found the heat wave coming from the funnel rather impressive, but alas, there was no category for the shot and it had to go.   


Title: Re: Photo composition rules
Post by: simonwp on August 17, 2018, 11:25:34 am
That would be interesting if it could be done. I have loads of shots of activities on board ships, such as working cargo, which might well be of interest to members but there is no category for them. It may help give some members an interesting insight into how vessels are operated etc. We have members working on ships who could also provide good shots. Most members interests are much wider than just photographs of ships, they are interesting in the wider industry.


Title: Re: Photo composition rules
Post by: Bob Scott on August 17, 2018, 12:12:48 pm
There are already more than enough categories and I don't think we need any more. Interesting cargo handling ops could possibly be included in the 'Ships Deck' category but in my opinion we don't need any more 'bits of ships' categories.


Title: Re: Photo composition rules
Post by: pieter melissen on August 17, 2018, 03:04:27 pm
There are already more than enough categories and I don't think we need any more. Interesting cargo handling ops could possibly be included in the 'Ships Deck' category but in my opinion we don't need any more 'bits of ships' categories.

So you would simply delete Marek's shot?


Title: Re: Photo composition rules
Post by: Marek W on August 17, 2018, 03:13:55 pm
I honestly don't want to stir up any trouble here. Just something I think the site admins may consider. I approach this from a purely photography point of view. I don't care what ship is in my viewfinder, as long as I have something interesting to capture or present it in a way that makes my audience smile.

Could a general category be added which would encompass closeup/detail shots? No sub-categories inside. Just detailed shots of any vessel. I think this would bring a new dimension to the fine marine photography on this site and enable us and our audience to see things most don't, especially when our subjects tend to be quite a distance away from us and many will never set foot on the decks of the ships we photograph.

The aviation community faced the same issue when for the longest time some of the foremost aviation photography sites also disallowed posting of close ups, and yet with the advent of social media, sites like FB and IG now find these types of shots to be very popular.

Just a humble thought :)


Title: Re: Photo composition rules
Post by: Phil English on August 17, 2018, 03:35:39 pm
Marek,

Your photos are indeed very good from a photography perspective but this site has always focussed on ships first and foremost, and photography second. Hence we have a set of site standards which basically allows ship enthusiasts to see what a particular ship looks like, rather than to see what a bit of it looks like. Within that, there are a set of basic composition and clarity rules to weed out shots of substandard quality.

Brgds
Phil


Title: Re: Photo composition rules
Post by: Marek W on August 17, 2018, 03:47:07 pm
Thanks Phil! I completely understand. Looking forward to posting more. Interesting discussion none the less :)


Title: Re: Photo composition rules
Post by: davidships on August 18, 2018, 12:17:20 am
An interesting discussion - and welcome to you, Marek, for asking the question.  There is plenty of room for more opinions on this from other members as well (I'll probably move this discussion to the "Site related" section as we've got beyond the initial straight question).

We do not need to be tied to the past, but we do need to keep a focus on what we can do best and what members generally want, as well as the best that we already have.  Personally I doubt that overall a sort of "Maritime Flickr" would be realistic as a way to go, even if we could actually manage it - technical and moderating resources are not exactly plentiful.

best wishes

David


Title: Re: Photo composition rules
Post by: Marek W on August 18, 2018, 05:43:18 am
Thanks David. Very well put. I just thought that maybe bringing this topic up would stir up some consideration to further site evolution and photographic expression. Ultimately it's up to the admins. I'm just glad that I can contribute some content.

Cheers,
Marek


Title: Re: Photo composition rules
Post by: Chris Howell on August 28, 2018, 09:56:34 pm
My only comment is to support the admins, the site is about ships and vessels. As an official photographer for a port I only too well understand the differences, my employers want weird angles, dramatic lighting but for the most part this is inappropriate for a site like this.

What irritates me is the number of posts of crooked horizons, poorly balanced shots, underexposed etc, there are so many programs available so no real excuse.

No one should go on about the admins either, if they delete just suck it up and put something new on instead !


Title: Re: Photo composition rules
Post by: miraflores on August 29, 2018, 05:16:38 am
https://ibb.co/iLykJU

The photo at right side was taken with a drone and was considered for deletion because it was too similare to the photo left which was taken at a fully different location and different time, and the angle of changing ist at least 40 - 50°, says the admin.
Thats why I have started to delete all my 6754 photos and stop any further support, I have reached now 5200, dayly decreasing.


Title: Re: Photo composition rules
Post by: nbocean on August 29, 2018, 07:40:14 am
hello miraflores,

indeed your both pictures look quite more different than many other series of the same ship at the same place and time which are not under investigation for deletion. Sometimes the decisions of the admins what to delete and what not look a bit arbitrary. But is this alone a reason to play something like an "insulted liverwurst" and to delete all your 6.000 pictures? Think you posted them to share them with the large worldwide group of enthusiasts -who will definitely like your photos and regret your step- and not only to please the limited number of admins.
very sad thing, maybe you re-think your decision.

Greets
Niko


Title: Re: Photo composition rules
Post by: Stan Muller on August 29, 2018, 10:05:38 am
Hi Juergen,

I saw your photos and was suprised about deletion.
The difference in angle is significant and there are thousands of photos on the site and growing daily with a less difference in angle.

Nevertheless, please do not stop uploading.Keep your photos on this site.


brgds
Stan


Title: Re: Photo composition rules
Post by: simonwp on August 29, 2018, 04:09:49 pm
I have got to say that flagging one of these for deletion seems to me to be a bit perverse. They are clearly taken at a different location, and, judging by the vegetation, a different time of year. It is strange that the site standards allow identical shots of the same vessel from different photographers all stood alongside each other on the same day at Maasvalkte but don't allow these.


Did you appeal the decision of the admins, I'd be surprised if a second look would not have reversed the decision.


However I am also disappointed that you are deleting your photographs. This site is about it's members, not the admins. I, for one, would like to still see your photographs. They are very much appreciated. When I post on here, I post for the benefit of other members.


Title: Re: Photo composition rules
Post by: miraflores on August 30, 2018, 02:04:54 pm
Some years ago I had uploaded this photo:

https://photos.marinetraffic.com/ais/showphoto.aspx?photoid=339222&size=1600

It was considered for deletion, reason: Obstructed by trees.
My reaction was to delete all my 22 000 uploaded photos, took me many, many days.

And now I see a photo with 4 tugboats alongside, this ship is not obstructed by tugs?

2 different interpretations or we have new rules?

I have only 4200 photos left to be deleted.


Title: Re: Photo composition rules
Post by: Marc Pingoud on August 30, 2018, 07:22:12 pm
Dear Jürgen,
I really can feel with you, my friend - But please stop deleting your work - Your photos belongs to this site!
I myself, I'm well known at the admins, I'm sure :-) - Sorry guys ;-) - Sometimes it's really hard to accept a decision like this one with same arguement "ship obstructed":
https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/photos/picture/ships/2606298/9216169/242911000
And there were many, many more... - and often I was so pissed, frustrated - about a result of an interesting hobby...
Well, I'm still uploading pictures, which I like and which meets (from my point od view) the standards, ok sometimes on he edge, but the photos may are in a kind of way interesting.
I think, there should be some more space for special nautical photos on this site - which are just stunning like yours...

So please, Jürgen - stop deleting! Let's try to go on showing best quality pictures on this site.  I hope, that shipspotting will not just developping into huge database of boring technical pictures...

Kind regards from Switzerland Marc
   


Title: Re: Photo composition rules
Post by: Daniel Bérubé on August 30, 2018, 08:31:31 pm
To Jurgen: your photo of RIJNBORG with the eis coloring the trees (our word for it is: verglas)  is a master piece.


Title: Re: Photo composition rules
Post by: miraflores on August 31, 2018, 04:58:19 am
@Daniel,
I received many emails like yours, but the photo was not good enough for SS in 2010 because the ship was obstructed by trees, not by twigs.
Not much in the deletion policy has changed since then.


Title: Re: Photo composition rules
Post by: csaba on September 06, 2018, 10:31:46 pm
That snow covered scenery is absolutely beautiful and the obstruction is really minimal, it is not that we are not seeing some crucial part of the ship. I always enjoyed your photos from the Kiel canal of changing seasons with ships. I would like you to stop deleting them but if you must, are you putting them on somewhere else so that we can enjoy them?


Title: Re: Photo composition rules
Post by: Paul Finnigan on September 07, 2018, 12:08:55 am
Just my thought, if the trees and landscape were not covered in snow would we be having this discussion ?.... probable not  ;) just because the trees are covered in snow doesn't make it any less obstructed.   


Title: Re: Photo composition rules
Post by: miraflores on September 07, 2018, 06:40:20 am
@Paul,
the Rijnborg photo is now 8 years old, but until today there is a big difference between obstruction and obstruction, between uploader an uploader and admin and admin.
Is a passenger ship in e.g. Port of Sydney with 2 tugs or a bunker boat alongsinde not obstructed?

@csaba
Go to Marinetraffic and search for my account, you find all my photos, and MT is happy to receive such photos which will be deleted here.

Rgds. Juergen


Title: Re: Photo composition rules
Post by: Paul Finnigan on September 07, 2018, 10:16:24 pm
Hello Juergen,photos of a ship with tugs or bunker boats attached to it are not obstructed as such as they are working with the ship,but if the tugs or bunker boat were passing pass the ship and not assisting the ship yes the photo is obstructed.

As for Marine Traffic it does only one thing good and its good at it,live shipping map as for its photos well no comment  ;)     


Title: Re: Photo composition rules
Post by: simon de jong on September 07, 2018, 10:31:10 pm
Hello Jurgen
I always liked youre foto,s on marinetraffic but i also deleted my foto,s from shipspotting because of their different rules for different photographers i recommenend flickr no rules.
Regards
Simon de Jong


Title: Re: Photo composition rules
Post by: simonwp on September 08, 2018, 05:55:31 am
Interesting debate. From my point of view it is not the rules that are the problem, but the inconsistent, and sometimes arbitrary way in which they are applied. I have stuck with Shipspotting even when it seems to me quite randomly one of my photographs has been deleted, because it is the best site for shipping photographs, but it is not without it's own problems at times. For example, I had a photograph deleted for a reason I though was very harsh. As an experiment I reposted it a few weeks later. It is still on here. I had one photograph deleted because the admin said the colour of the hull was wrong!!!!! In fact it had just come out of dry-dock, and the hull had been repainted a slightly different shade of green. However this site is not unique in having these sorts of problems, I belong to a couple of aviation sites, and they have very similar problems. In this case what is an acceptable obstruction for one person, is not for an other. It is a great shame when this leads to someone deleting their photographs. I would have left them on here, but not posted any more. It is other members who lose out when you delete photographs, anot the admins.


Title: Re: Photo composition rules
Post by: Phil English on September 10, 2018, 10:09:00 am
If someone with a large collection of photos on Shipspotting deletes them all, let them. They can do as they please. However, they should automatically be banned for life. Why should they get access to other members' photos, when theirs cannot be accessed any longer?

Brgds


Title: Re: Photo composition rules
Post by: miraflores on September 10, 2018, 10:56:06 am
@Phil English
....................said the emperor to his people.
Have you ever thought why long lasted member delete their photos?
As long as I am a member is there the problem with the deletion policy, how many member have deleted all their photos in the past 10 years?
If you have an orgasmus you can delete my account and the remaining 2990 photos, it saves me a long tome to delete them all by hand.

Without Brgds.


Title: Re: Photo composition rules
Post by: Phil English on September 10, 2018, 11:38:33 am
Your choice.. you delete them

PS - I'm administrator in name only. I no longer undertake admin on this site and haven't done for some considerable time.


Title: Re: Photo composition rules
Post by: Fergal Clohessy on September 10, 2018, 02:18:48 pm
Phil, with respect.. if you are no longer an admin why are you listed as being one? Im afraid your attitude makes the real admins look bad...


Title: Re: Photo composition rules
Post by: csaba on September 16, 2018, 04:48:40 am
If someone with a large collection of photos on Shipspotting deletes them all, let them. They can do as they please. However, they should automatically be banned for life. Why should they get access to other members' photos, when theirs cannot be accessed any longer?

Brgds

Phil, I think this is a bit of a harsh response. BTW, what would the definition of "large collection" be? I understand that Miraflores has problem re deletion and we all know that, but what if somebody deletes his/her photos without explanation? Should they be banned too? I don't see why.


Title: Re: Photo composition rules
Post by: davidships on September 16, 2018, 07:36:47 am
Unnecessary in my view, and it will not happen on my watch.  Prodigal sons are welcome to return provided they are not disruptive.

I am closing this forum thread which started with a genuine question and has been hijacked by a member who was upset by proposed deletion.  We have a proper procedure for reviewing deletions where a mistake or error of judgment may have been made, but in this case it was specifically declined and the photos self-deleted.  That is all there is to say about it.