ShipSpotting.com Forum

Shipspotters all over the world => Site related news, functions and modules => Topic started by: Bob Scott on August 18, 2016, 09:58:29 am



Title: "Shared" photos
Post by: Bob Scott on August 18, 2016, 09:58:29 am
I note that of the 24 pictures in the first two pages of the last 24 hours’ “Most Popular” some 15 of them are there without any comments but all 15 have been shared with other sites - some with no less than five others.
If hits on these photos on other sites makes for one on this site, then that makes a mockery of the “most popular” facility for this site.
In my view, hits should only be registered on this site when made directly by logged-in members of shipspotting.com
I know the hits counter is not supposed to be part of a competition, but the domination of the “shared” photos - which are sometimes quite unremarkable photos of equally unremarkable ships -  denies members the chance to appreciate the many photos which deserve to be on the “most popular” pages


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: DEREK SANDS on August 18, 2016, 10:33:49 am
Bob,

Ken has been banging on about this for years and has not got anywhere I am afraid.
One of the reasons I quit really was the fact you cannot get anything done on this site unless the owner or the tech man want to do it. Never mind the admin team who seem not to count.

No doubt this comment will be removed to, never mind !

Maybe see you in October at Gravesend.

cheers

Derek


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: simonwp on August 18, 2016, 11:16:50 am
Personally I'm not bothered how many hits any of my photographs get, I don't post just to generate hits.

However I do share my photographs with other sites, and Facebook forums, but I always upload separately, so that there is no link to this site.

The comments are more useful to me, as they often contain additional information from other members, or corrections. It's obvious though, that if a photograph gets a comment, it them gets a much larger number of hits that it would otherwise, even if the comment is something mundane like correcting an IMO number.

So it seems to me that a photograph will get more hits through getting a comment, than it would if it gets shared.


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Doug Shaw on August 18, 2016, 11:46:18 am
Glad you brought this up Bob,couldn't agree more,as you say Derek,as it doesn't fit in with the site
owners ideas,it will no doubt soon be deleted.
A link to a Ships Database site http://www.ships.lv/en/vessels/9129134-thule.html was posted last week,this site consisted of photos from Shipspotting.com,with no acknowledgment to the photographer.
This forum subject was quickly deleated by whoever.
Well if photo contributors to this site are willing to be treated with no consideration whatsoever that is their perogative,I'm not.
As you say Mike there are far more sites run on a more even footing than this one.



 


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Captain Carlitos on August 18, 2016, 02:13:22 pm
who cares a picture look more than another ?, it is important that those photos will serve to shipping companies, students, magazines, etc., even for naval history, that is the real goal, at least I see it that way.


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Ken Smith on August 18, 2016, 04:23:18 pm
You are absolutely right Derek, you may recall I often referred to this being a Two Tiered Website (Them & Us) and how requests from our side were very difficult to achieve and mostly ignored but that said I have to say there have been occasions when a request has been granted.

I am afraid it is still ongoing and is under discussion by the Admin team as I speak, unfortunately it is only when you have held the position of Webmaster as you and I have that you fully appreciate the situation.

On the subject of Hits and Comments to photographs I have lost count of the times I have raised it but I did have a little success with "Likes and Not Likes" which can only be made by a member of the Website and asked for it to be extended but nothing came of it.

My argument is that there is nothing wrong with members linking their photographs, the opportunity is there when uploading for them to do so but linked photographs should not create a hit giving a Photograph a three figure rating, also comments create a hit and they need to be reviewed as well, I have often seen a misspelled word or missing IMO number given as a comment to a photograph and that can produce unjustifiable hits much to the delight of a member.

This is a Member only Website and only Members should be able to add a Hit, I use the word loosely but they should not come from outside Sources, it is grossly unfair to those members that simply upload to the Website.
 
It has been dragging on for far too long and the whole system needs to be reviewed.

Regards
Ken


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Barry Graham on August 18, 2016, 06:33:20 pm
I recently uploaded a photograph of a derelict passenger ship which has languished for many years in Liverpool docks.  Within 2 days the photograph had attracted more than 4,000 hits which seemed out of all proportion to its intrinsic interest.  Questions were raised in the comments about why it had so many hits and someone suggested that it was due to file sharing.  Until then I hadn't realised that sharing was possible and it remains a mystery to me how this can take place without any action or knowledge on my part.  Because the photograph had attracted an unwarranted number of hits which I felt distorted the site statistics I deleted it and I would do so again under similar circumstances unless there is a way that a member can prevent their photo being shared off the site.


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Bob Scott on August 18, 2016, 07:15:07 pm
Señor Vadir Goñiz Fariñas: If it pleases you that your photos may be stolen by commercial organisations such as shipping companies and magazines, then good luck to you. But I suspect that you might be in a small minority of shipspotting.com members with that view
Barry: Reload your photo! There is a large ghoulish element on this site that ensures that photos of ships in trouble or being broken-up get a lot of hits – with or without attached comments or links with other sites


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Dеnis on August 18, 2016, 07:29:53 pm
Does this do anything?

My Photos > Settings

Quote
To promote your photos and the website, we allow our shipspotting.com photo thumbnails (210x165 pixels) to be shown on other sites such as maritime websites, social media (example: Facebook, Twitter), home pages and blogs.

 When such a thumbnail is shown outside our site:
 - Clicking the thumbnail takes the viewer to the photo page with the original larger photo on shipspotting.com.
 - The photographer is always credited with a copyright mark

 We might limit larger websites from showing photos by charging a small fee. This fee will cover the extra costs for serving thumbnails externally, and also help out with financing the shipspotting.com servers.
 If you do not want your photo thumbnails (210x165 pixels) to be shown on other sites, check this box:
[ ] Exclude all my current and future photos from being displayed externally


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Barry Graham on August 18, 2016, 07:36:41 pm
Thanks Denis.  I was unaware of this facility to prevent external sharing.  I've checked the box as suggested.  Regards. Barry


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Ken Smith on August 18, 2016, 07:48:39 pm
Denis & Barry, the link has been there for sometime and I have referred to it in the Forum on occasions  http://www.shipspotting.com/gallery/my_settings.php I have ticked the box but whether it works or not is a good question, I suspect it is primarily for Maritime Connector, there were a few problems in that area.

Regards
Ken


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Patrick Hill on August 18, 2016, 08:45:05 pm
Glad you brought this up Bob,couldn't agree more,as you say Derek,as it doesn't fit in with the site
owners ideas,it will no doubt soon be deleted.
A link to a Ships Database site http://www.ships.lv/en/vessels/9129134-thule.html was posted last week,this site consisted of photos from Shipspotting.com,with no acknowledgment to the photographer.


I wish I could contact them - the copyright disclaimer reads "Photos copyright: You can use photos by ships.lv for both commercial and non commercial use. Direct link you our website is obligatory!" - how can they offer this on someone elses photos?

And Dennis - it would appear not as I have it set but my photos are still on there - although I must admit they can just copy and use to their hearts content. :(


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Jens Boldt on August 18, 2016, 09:35:18 pm
Hi Patrick,

data according to WHOIS.NET:


[Domain]
Domain: ships.lv
Status: active

[Holder]
Type: Natural person
Email: info@supreme.lv
Phone: +371 27233234

[Tech]
Type: Natural person
Email: info@supreme.lv
Phone: +371 27233234

[Nservers]
Nserver: ns1.vidacloud.co.uk
Nserver: ns2.vidacloud.co.uk

Cheers,
Jens


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Tomas Østberg- Jacobsen on August 19, 2016, 07:19:54 am
i'd rather have 10 views on a photo instead of having 200 by a linked photo. But thats me, and thats stupid of me really, given that i make a living out of this hobby of ours. But thats me.


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Phil English on August 19, 2016, 08:07:07 am
I'm sorry, but I don't get why it's a problem if someone's photo gets more hits than yours, whether it's by sharing, comments or whatever. As far as I'm concerned, this isn't a competition and I'm just happy to post my photos here.

Brgds
Phil


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Tony des Landes on August 19, 2016, 08:32:31 am
I'm sorry, but I don't get why it's a problem if someone's photo gets more hits than yours, whether it's by sharing, comments or whatever. As far as I'm concerned, this isn't a competition and I'm just happy to post my photos here.

Brgds
Phil
Totally agree

Tony d


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Hannes van Rijn on August 20, 2016, 07:37:22 am
I'm sorry, but I don't get why it's a problem if someone's photo gets more hits than yours, whether it's by sharing, comments or whatever. As far as I'm concerned, this isn't a competition and I'm just happy to post my photos here.

Brgds
Phil

I totally agree Phil !!!


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: John van Zijderveld on August 20, 2016, 10:20:07 am
I'm sorry, but I don't get why it's a problem if someone's photo gets more hits than yours, whether it's by sharing, comments or whatever. As far as I'm concerned, this isn't a competition and I'm just happy to post my photos here.

Brgds
Phil

Indeed Phil


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: jdap on August 20, 2016, 01:45:28 pm
Quote
I'm sorry, but I don't get why it's a problem if someone's photo gets more hits than yours, whether it's by sharing, comments or whatever. As far as I'm concerned, this isn't a competition and I'm just happy to post my photos here.

Brgds
Phil
Posted on: Yesterday at 07:19:54 am Post

Thumbs up!


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Kelvin Davies on August 22, 2016, 07:03:18 am
Phil, I think you may be missing the point here.
The web site referred to in this thread seems to collect all of their photos from shipspotting. Then they have the brass neck to say users are free to use these photos for commercial purposes. Also, one has to assume they generate revenue from the adverts on their page. As I understand this, it means they get paid for each click on each advert on their site.
And that boils down to someone else making money off your work. How ethical is that?
So, the point is not sharing your photos with others but having your photo generate income for someone else and none for you.


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Michael Wirth on August 22, 2016, 07:48:18 am
The fact is, as said before: if you upload your pictures anywhere on the web, be it this site or any other, you give others the chance to use them for whatever they want and you give away control over your pictures.

If you have a lawyer at hand, you can sue them (if you find out who really is behind it and if that someone lives in your country - otherwise you can forget it in the first place).

There are sites which try to prevent deep links, disable right-click, and so on. There is a simple workaround for all of this (right-click disabled -> install NoScript and forget about it for example).

Anyone has to make up his or her mind about that before uploading - that's it.


I'm still not sure whether I want this, so of my 10000+ photos only a few are found here as a test.


Best regards,

Michael.


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Tuomas Romu on August 22, 2016, 09:02:03 am
The only way to "protect" your photographs is to hide them in your basement (or, as I like to say, "sit on them") and never show them to anyone. Personally, I like the opposite, so I publish all my material under a free Creative Commons license.

I'm sorry, but I don't get why it's a problem if someone's photo gets more hits than yours, whether it's by sharing, comments or whatever. As far as I'm concerned, this isn't a competition and I'm just happy to post my photos here.

...and I'm happy that ShipSpotting provides a possibility of thumbnail linking. I often use this functionality when I need to support my post with a photograph, mine or someone else's. It's ok if members want to opt out from this, but please don't remove the functionality as a whole just because some users think this is some kind of a pissing contest.


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Phil English on August 22, 2016, 02:01:01 pm
Phil, I think you may be missing the point here.
The web site referred to in this thread seems to collect all of their photos from shipspotting. Then they have the brass neck to say users are free to use these photos for commercial purposes. Also, one has to assume they generate revenue from the adverts on their page. As I understand this, it means they get paid for each click on each advert on their site.
And that boils down to someone else making money off your work. How ethical is that?
So, the point is not sharing your photos with others but having your photo generate income for someone else and none for you.

No Kelvin, it is you who is missing the point. I am referring to those who deliberately link their photos to other social media sites such as Facebook, Twitter, etc. This is the bone of contention raised by the initial post. The subject has then gone off on tangent to include those sites which link to our thumbnails.

Brgds
Phil


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Bob Scott on August 22, 2016, 02:12:17 pm
Thank you, Phil, for trying to get this thread back to its original intended point. As I type this, no less than 16 of the 24 "most popular" photos are noted as being "Shared" with several other sites. This makes a complete nonsense of the "most popular" list since, although the photos involved were of good enough quality, few - if any - of them would have made it to the top-viewed 24 (without any attached comments) by their own merit.
That was my original point - the "most popular" feature has become irrelevant and might as well be discontinued


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: jadran on August 22, 2016, 04:36:40 pm


I have a question (my ignorance):
Who, or what subject, can activate/make connection to the SHARE application to be active ??

Thank you in advance for an appropriate explanation,
Jadran








Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Stan Muller on August 23, 2016, 09:17:48 am
If you like to share your photos on social media yourself, you can do that 24 hrs after uploading it on shipspotting.com, so it won't "pollute" the topposters list.

For me topposters list 24 hrs is a quick scan for "special" photo's not for (less than) avarage photo's shared to Facebook pages/groups.



Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Bob Scott on August 23, 2016, 10:50:49 am
Well said, Stan. Exactly what I am trying to convey.


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Allan RO on August 23, 2016, 10:55:04 am
Well done Stan, absolutely hit the nail on the head

Allan


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Bob Scott on August 25, 2016, 10:54:27 am
This morning when uploading a photo I happened to notice that the one posted just ONE minute prevously already had 16 hits registered. Ten minutes later it had accumulated 34 hits. That photo is of a quite unremarkable bulk carrier.
It is noted that the photo is "shared" with two other sites. The same poster's other photos - and those of a few others from the same part of the world - also seem to get an inordinate number of hits to the point where he and they have been virtually monoplising the top 24 "most popular" photos.
What the hell is going on here and what are the Admins doing about it? They surely cannot have failed to notice what is going on with a small number of posters who "share" with other sites. It is making a complete farce of the hit counting and "most popular" features of the site and is denying the membership the ability to quickly find the photos on the site that are really the most interesting.  It is just not fair!


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Allan RO on August 25, 2016, 11:38:04 am
Couldn't agree more Bob, there does seem to be a small number of culprits who are hell bent on monopolising top spots with very ordinary photos of very ordinary ships to the detriment of more interesting photos and subjects.

Allan


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Ken Smith on August 25, 2016, 11:38:41 am
Tell about it Bob, I tried very hard during my time to resolve this problem and I share your  concerns, but there is little that the Administrators can do without the support of the Technical Side and that I am afraid is sadly lacking.
Regards
Ken


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Tuomas Romu on August 25, 2016, 12:05:19 pm
Bob, won't the most interesting photographs eventually appear on the other lists, e.g. most viewed of 7 days? Of course, as the timespan gets longer, the lists tend to become dominated by disaster porn.

Anyway, would counting only registered members generate enough hits to those "really interesting" photographs to make the top viewed list somehow better? I mean, it's quite unlikely that a large number of registered members would randomly stumble across the same interesting photograph while browsing the database or even the list of latest photographs uploaded on the site. Of course, you could have a "look what I found" thread on the forums, but what would prevent a member from posting links to their own photographs there and claim they are interesting? Also, a positive feedback loop (people looking only at photographs on the top views list) could also make the list more biased to certain ship types or cliche photographs because the most active members would likely have their favourites (the so-called "tiny steamboat plague" in historical ships magazines).

By the way, if an older photograph receives a large number of hits, will it show on "most viewed of 24 hours", or is the category only limited to photographs posted within these past 24 hours?


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: lappino on August 25, 2016, 01:20:01 pm
Tuomas, the most viewed photos of 24 hours are taken among those uploaded within the same 24 hours.

I am one of the guilty ones.

My by far worst photo has the most hits on this site, I guess, 30.000+.

It was shared mercilessly - and not by me, mind you, I wasn't interested in that 3 years ago.

But then I went over to the dark side of photo sharers myself. It was easy. Being a member of a large FB group, all you needed was share your photo there, and you'd get 100s of hits within an hour. (There is also a minor practical reason: uploading a photo to this site is more complicated than to, say, marinetraffic. So, after uploading, it is easier to just share it to FB, than to uploaded it there all over again.)

Sure, it's not fair. But then we cross into the territory of personal tastes, and they can not be considered as objective. I might say that I share only photos of new ships, the ones not previously on site. (Before I thought that the "new ships" would get more views - not really, they wouldn't.) So, it's back to who loves to see what. I will travel thousands of kilometers to see some old relic - but will not click on a picture of some other relic myself. I like fjord pictures, for instance, and I've never been there.

Let's face it, seeing one's picture on the first page is a goal for many of us here. Shared pictures tilt the odds significantly towards the side of the "sharers", so other pictures, quality notwithstanding, are left behind.

But the same is with comments - they will generate more views than sharing (I know, I've tested it! :) ). Sure, I will not make a first comment myself, but a buddy's comments is just as efficient.

Stan gave me an idea: if I want to share my picture, I will do it the next day.

....

No.

Wait.

This is all a bunch of cЯap. This site lives of hits. Hits. Shares generate hits. Traffic. So the sleazy ads I get (due to my other surfing habits) can generate more money for everyone involved.

So, we can complain, but this is a business venture. Ultimately, it cares mostly about the bottom line.

Ships...did someone mentioned ships? What ships? (Wait, I got a hot Ukrainian woman dying to meet me, only if I click here!)

Unremarkable picture which links this site to some other site is significantly more lucrative than some shipspotter's "dream shot".

...

Eventually, to keep the "true" shipspotters happy, it would really make sense not to count shared views for the "most viewed" category. Sure, there will be an order of magnitude less "views", but the most viewed category would change a bit. Not by a lot, though, because ultimately it's disaster porn what everyone wants to see.

My 0.02$.


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: coasterwatcher on August 25, 2016, 10:24:07 pm

Let's face it, seeing one's picture on the first page is a goal for many of us here.

How very sad, but probably a true reflection of how far the hobby has sunk in recent years. Gone are the days when we were interested in the ships, their owners and their trades. Now the emphasis is on hits - and self-aggrandisement. The number of people who actually know about the ships is a considerable minority. Why some posters wish to post 4 or 5 shots of the same ship at the same place on the same day is, I'm afraid, beyond my understanding.

How on earth is this "sharing" nonsense adding to our knowledge of maritime matters?

I now await the shouts of indignation.  ::)


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Bob Scott on August 26, 2016, 07:31:26 am
No shout of indignation from me, coasterwatcher, I agree with you 110%.
I am a ship enthusiast rather than a photographer and it seems to me more and more that an interest in or knowledge about ships is becoming almost a disqualification as far as enjoying this site is concerned.
Very well said, sir. One of the most succinct comments I have seen on here in years.


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: pieter melissen on August 26, 2016, 04:14:30 pm
Bob, Lappino, the sharing is such is not the problem, neither is the number of hits which make this site tick financially. It is construction that the most hits make a shot appear here on the site as the most popular. Perhaps we should get rid of this popularity system altogether so that everyone can appreciate the photographs posted using his own judging standards, without being "guided" by the popular vote. I have been away for about two weeks and on my return I have gone through all the days that I have not able to check the site, and there were several shots that I found very interesting, and yet none of them scored high on the popularity ladder. So my basisc question is why should we have a system here that visibly counts the number of hits, and links the number of hits with the word "popular".


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Captain Ted on August 26, 2016, 08:00:04 pm
Well,, I often stated that these "hits" for any price will destroy the "existng unity" of this site, if that still exists. Sadly to see. When I sign in and see the same names again and again in the top 3, thats a reason
to sign off again. At least if they would be interesting, but again and again same locations and often same style ships.  Pretty much boring for me I can say.
To stop it would be as stated for the sites financial side not so good, for the viewable side most probably very much.  I get sometimes so bored here by the same type of pictures and same peoples who comment that I sometimes wake up when my nose hits the keyboard !!!!  Well at least I still wake up !!!!!

brgds
capt ted


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Marc Pingoud on August 26, 2016, 09:15:58 pm
Well - it's actulally rather frustrating ...
more and more... - day by day ...
I count of some action!
However - thanks to all of you, who are pleasant about special shots and  intersted in unique pictures...
Let's keep to go for it...
Kind regards - Marc


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Bob Scott on August 26, 2016, 09:38:57 pm
Marc:
Maybe it's just me but my command of the English language does not enable me to fully understand what point you are making.
Regards
Bob


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Marc Pingoud on August 26, 2016, 10:03:04 pm
Bob - sorry about my English... no worry - I know my range ;-)
What I meant: I did observe the way of developpment of several pictures... and the uploading standard... What should I say - Maybe like you... I have thousands of ship fotos taken, ready on my Computer to spill out ... But I take the time (rather a lot) to evaluate,select,optmat and decide, which could be the most intersting one... - and finally, I'm happy and proud of the picture...
... and much more important: to find the faboulos shots of all the colleagues with much better performance.
I don't have the time for seraching every day within thousand of pictures... I always miss to much of intersting shots - Well, agree, my own problem - unfortunatley... Kind regards from Switzerland - Marc


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Bob Scott on August 27, 2016, 11:27:31 am
Thanks, Marc. Got it now. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
Regards
Bob


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Stan Muller on August 29, 2016, 11:37:05 am
Quote
I get sometimes so bored here by the same type of pictures and same peoples who comment that I sometimes wake up when my nose hits the keyboard !!!! 

heheheh

I just realized I haven't been browsing Shipspotting.com for several days. Losing my interest for the first time since the site started, 12 years ago.




Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Bob Scott on August 29, 2016, 12:54:12 pm
I am surprised and perhaps a little disappointed that none of the current Admins team has seen fit to contribute to this thread with perhaps some kind of explanation as to why they don't, won't or can't do anything about the unfair monopolisation of the "most viewed" feature by the small number of members who gain an inordinate number of hits for often quite unremarkable photos by sharing them with other sites. As this situation continues I find my interest in shipspotting.com is fading fast.


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: andrecas on August 29, 2016, 03:18:51 pm
Maybe the site could place a ceiling on the number of hits that a so called "top three" photo can accumulate while on the front page. Cap the number of views/hits at say 300, then photo relegated to the mainstream. This would increase rotation allowing for newer and possibly (probably) more interesting uploads to be viewed on home page within the first 24 hrs. The "photos" that seem to monopolize top spots (or any photo that makes it there for that matter) that's removed from top 3 billing (after 300 views) would of course still be garnering hits/views while on the back pages. And at this point, should it be the "same old - same old" (shared) showing up, I would hazard to guess once photo out of plain view the number of hits would drop dramatically   ;)


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Bob Scott on August 29, 2016, 04:05:17 pm
A simple solution might be for Admins to tell the culprits to stop it!


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Jens Boldt on August 29, 2016, 05:57:10 pm
Isn't it possible that the culprit isn't a culprit but a victim (so to speak)?


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: simonwp on August 29, 2016, 06:28:59 pm
Does any of it really matter......I think not.


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: davidships on August 29, 2016, 08:45:03 pm
Bob and all
Frankly, I'm in listening mode on this at the moment - partly because there is no real consensus on whether there is a problem, what it is might be, or what practical changes would make what difference.  It isn't a question of wagging a finger and saying "don't do that".

I would be more interested now in additional members opinions (rather than additional opinions from members who have already contributed). This discusson is important but, as Ken has already pointed out, making any technical changes of the sort some members are advocating is just not do-able at the moment while the tech side is so unresponsive.  That's what I am working on at the moment.

And in the meantime, if you find that the 3-pic front page gallery is not to your liking, don't forget that a much wider variety of subjects and photographers is just one click away - and changing all the time.

David


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Clyde Dickens on August 30, 2016, 06:24:06 am
Thank you David for encouraging a widening of debate about this issue

I believe that top of Home page 3 pics is one of the most popular features of this site.

That is manifested by the rapidity with which hits to a photo escalate rapidly when it reaches that spot.  Obviously there are many members and visitors who regularly go there while browsing the site.  They are the same (type of) people who click on Comments on the right hand side and thus generate hits. I suspect that many just like looking at what the site has to display.  

Another source of hits comes from those who have a particular interest in a category such as Passenger or Military vessels, or the work of an admired member.

All responses are examples of the communication based strength of the site which any member can utilise.  For many it has become a path via which site based friendships are established.  That is not only pleasant for the individuals but strengthens the site and thus its future.
    
But the generation of hits from sources other than directly from members gives a distorted view of popularity with members. It is solely ego driven, not also the concept of sharing.  I hope that can be avoided by site programming, or Admin questioning of a member about unusual rapidity and volume of hits to one photo.  


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: lappino on August 30, 2016, 06:41:45 am

...
    
But the generation of hits from sources other than directly from members gives a distorted view of popularity with members. It is solely ego driven, not also the concept of sharing.  I hope that can be avoided by site programming, or Admin questioning of a member about unusual rapidity and volume of hits to one photo.  


Hello Clyde and all,

I never mix "popularity with members" and "number of hits".

As for "Admin questioning of a member" - this sequence of words made me spill my coffee. Let's just not take these things too seriously. "Where have you been between June 21 and 23?!?" (Strong light directed at the member's face is optional.) :)

If the "Share" button can be abused, how about activating it only 24 hours after the upload, so the "shared" hits will not affect the count on the first page?

Although, the photos would still be able to be shared by simple copy/pasting of the picture page address into the browser.

Cheers

Vlad


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Clyde Dickens on August 30, 2016, 08:34:25 am
Thanks Vlad

I do believe that "popularity with members" and "number of hits" can sometimes be related.  And can be a source of pride for that member and a useful interest for other members.  You are too modest!

Like most Admin work, judgement (not a rigid rule) would be needed before following up a member whose hits seem unreal - as for at least one case where over a thousand hits were recorded for a pic without one Comment being made to it

Best regards
Clyde


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: simonwp on September 02, 2016, 07:57:21 pm
To illustrate how the "number of hits" function is really not fit for purpose, I made a mistake when posting a photograph of Jenny Smits earlier today (Posted wrong photograph). A couple of members posited this out via comments, as, within hours, it's in the top three viewed in the past 24 hours, just because people have looked to see what the comment is, rather than because the photograph is especially good.

That's why I ignore the number of hits on my photographs.


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Bob Scott on September 02, 2016, 11:09:06 pm
Simonwp: Even without the hits it gained by members pointing out your mistake, your photo of JENNY SMITS may well have made it into the “top three” on its own merits. There is no doubt that comments are a big booster for hit scores but good-quality, INTERESTING photos (and of course casualties) will in some cases still rise to the top without comments and without help from other sites.
I am not obsessed with hit scores but I do get annoyed with people who are and go on to monopolise the "most viewed" by means I consider to be less than fair. I know there is no rule against it but maybe it is time there was.


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: James Scott on September 15, 2016, 03:43:51 pm
Hi. I follow tihs site many years, job business. I understand some members used the share option for several options, for example ease? It´s easier clik a buttom that re-upload again and again the same pic in all social networks. I think "shared" buttom is a good tool, but it´s true, last weeks some members are abussed with this buttom. We can see today in first page up to 4 pics of same member (most of them repeated over and over) I take the trouble to visit the last pics of this Sir and I see the same tug (for example) 20 times !! or more, not sure ...  I have no problem to say the name of this member, sure you Know who I´m talking about ...  I think, by my humble opinión, that´s no good for the site. You lose the interest if you see the same pics every time you visit the site. Solutions? someone commented restricted the shared buttom until 24 hours you upload the pic ... there´s the way ... maybe a Little of self-criticism, coherence, and don´t wanna be the center of attention. I hope no disturb nobody with my comment, it´s good to share pics but moderately. And very important: be creative !! if you have not pics to upload no problem!! enjoy with  thousands of pics of this site. So please don´t upload the same vessel many times, it´s very bored and uninteresting.
Have a nice day for all shippspotting members and apologies for my english, it´s horrible I know.

Best regards.
Jaime.


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: jadran on September 16, 2016, 06:45:39 am


Today 16/09/2016 at 06:45 a.m. we had the following situation:
On the 1st page of "24 hours" there are '10 out of 12 photos' from the same Photographer member including all the 3 photos in the Top3 Most Popular.... these photos are all being "shared photos" >> and this is already now becoming very boring >>> and is KILLING the interest towards this website.......


Actually, on Top3 and 1st page of 24 hours, we have a "photo album of shared photos" posted by the one Photographer........ truly, I don't know how to comment this!!
Jadran







Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Captain Carlitos on September 16, 2016, 06:49:38 am
And who cares, cares ?, you can not think that this photograph can be collaborator or naval several web forums and share your photographs, first because he likes what he does and secondly because the website itself gives shipspotting that option to share. And honestly it makes me think this obsession theme "shared". Why bother ?, bores you do not see your photos on top? or why you lose money ?. I do not understand what the concern, because as far as I know, by having top photos or upload photos here do not gain anything, only wins and navigation help make this website a database. I do not see the problem.
rgd.
Y que mas da, ¿que te preocupa?, no puedes pensar en que este fotografo pueda ser colaborador de varias web o foros navales y comparte sus fotografías, en primer lugar porque le gusta lo que hace y en segundo porque la propia web shipspotting da esa opcion de compartir. Sinceramente ya me da que pensar esta obseción del tema "shared". ¿Por que te aburre?, ¿te molesta no ver tus fotos en top? o ¿por que pierdes dinero?. No entiendo cual es la preocupación, porque hasta donde yo se, por tener fotos top o por subir aqui fotos no se gana nada, solo se gana el ayudar a la navegación y hacer de esta web una gran base de datos. No veo el problema.


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Captain Carlitos on September 16, 2016, 07:07:01 am
Honestly, before speaking we must analyze the situation Jadran .. Dear friend, you have 457 photographs on this site, Salvador de la Rubia has 5435 photographs. The numbers speak for themselves, to more pictures, more visualizations.
Sinceramente, antes de hablar debemos de analizar la situación.. Estimado amigo Jadran, usted tiene en este sitio 457 fotografías, Salvador de la Rubia tiene 5435 fotografías. Los numeros hablan por si solo, a mas fotos, mas visualizaciones.
rgd, saludos ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: pieter melissen on September 16, 2016, 07:46:57 am
Carlos, it is an anomaly that the most viewed shots are not the best shots or showing the most interesting ships, but the most shared shots. And your argument about the number of shots on the site is a fallacy (not an analysis), because there are many contributors who have far more shots than Salvador. 


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Captain Carlitos on September 16, 2016, 08:17:37 am
Passage of the issue, ultimately to I do not care. Here are many admin and advocates that they fix the problem. :) :)


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Bob Scott on September 16, 2016, 09:18:54 am
As I see it, small number of people are ruining this site for many of the other users who regularly post photos. How long, I wonder, before photo-posting members start to abandon the site and leave it to the hit-maniacs. I think it might be in the site owners' interest to do something to stop that happening (I am not having a go at the admins here. They, too, seem to be up against it with the “don’t care” owner and his techie)


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Stan Muller on September 16, 2016, 09:30:24 am
Well Carlos, I guess your photo of Fidelity is also doomed to reach the TOP 3? Just saw it on Facebook.
This site is about sharing photos from all over the world, with a Top 3 and a top 24hr/48hr function to see the most special, most discussed photo's of a certain period.

Current situation is that we see only photos, posted by a handfull of photographers who recieve a handful likes on several Facebook pages, but get alot of hits on Shipspotting due to people automatically clicking the tumbnail on Facebook and being linked to Shipspotting. It will blow over finally, also on Facebook people get bored.

When you are proud of a photo, post it in a personal album on your FB profile and share from that position to other pages.
Or at least wait 24 or 48 hours before sharing it from Shipspotting giving thousands of members the opportunaty to see the most interessting or discussed photos instead of the most shared photos.

It ain't that difficult at all, but I guess some need the thrill to see their name on the main page.
And believe me, shipowners browse by name of ship, they let avarage photos pass by, they have enough choice, so I think It has nothing to do with money or with amount of photos per poster.

please let get back to respect and quality photos.



Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Dеnis on September 16, 2016, 09:59:41 am
it's a known issue of (barely interesting) photos from certain members getting to the Top 3 without a comment.  Maybe their authors post links to them via Facebook or something else.  If we had a more site-dedicated IT guy, better would be to get rid of that Top 3 at all & maybe a hit counter as well.  Actually, better would be making the hit counter visible only to the author of the photo.

lots of suggestions about this have been given throughout many months:
- remove the Top 3 from the home page
- make hit counter be visible only to author of the photo
- make a hit being generated only if the photo is was opened from gallery or via search (optional if the above 2 can't be done).
Problem solved.

Regards,
Denis

I'll keep quoting my suggestion everytime the hits-discussions arise & until the suggestion will be applied. :D


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Captain Carlitos on September 16, 2016, 10:00:37 am
Administrators gentlemen, I ask, Is there any rule that limits shipspotting share a photo of your authorship ?. There is an option to share your photos shipspotting more than 190 options between ........., email social networks 198 to share. Again, what limit there to share a photo? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Stan Muller on September 16, 2016, 10:12:40 am
There is no rule yet, this kind of behaviour has never occured before and has never been foreseen. That is what this topic is all about.

There is a rule though, that a member is not allowed to make a first comment on his own photo.
That was to prevent  to get it in the top 3 quickly yourself. That rule was introduced AFTER some members abused that option to get highlighted daily on the mainpage.

Do I see similarities here?


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Captain Carlitos on September 16, 2016, 10:35:00 am
In my humble opinion, I see many rules only bring problems, but again, I do not care for any photographer has the top with your images, ultimately win or lose nor that.
regards


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: pieter melissen on September 16, 2016, 11:52:36 am
We could decide to delete the share function here..

www.shipspotting.com/gallery/photo.php?lid=2533992http://www.shipspotting.com/gallery/photo.php?lid=2534113

This photo has now 100 hits.Why? The ship is not remarkable, there are better shots of her on the site. The angle is poor, a sideways shot of a loaden tanker makes her look like a pencil, and is the refinery in anyway of any interest?  We make a mockery of the site of we continue to let this go on.


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Bob Scott on September 16, 2016, 12:02:24 pm
Pieter: I suspect it is only Mr Brandao - not "we" who can make that decision.


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Captain Carlitos on September 16, 2016, 12:18:33 pm
That cleared the option to share and we'll see what photos are the most views. ;) ;)


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: pieter melissen on September 16, 2016, 12:26:05 pm
Pieter: I suspect it is only Mr Brandao - not "we" who can make that decision.

Bob, if I am not mistaken there is function that individuls can use which prevents one's pictures being shared. If that function exists, it can be easily made applicable for all users...


Title: Re: "Shared" photos - IMPORTANT
Post by: davidships on September 16, 2016, 12:35:33 pm
Ladies and Gentlemen .  This discussion is important and members views will help inform how we respond to understandable concerns.  We are more interested in a wide range of members' views, not endless repetitions from the same members.

However, may I remind you that that this is not a place to post insulting comments about other members or make other provocative comments.  I refer you the Code of Conduct; please amend or delete your comment if appropriate.  Remaining offensive comments will be removed and the CofC applied as necessary.


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Patrick Hill on September 16, 2016, 08:22:49 pm
I'd prefer my photos to make the top three on merit but it isn't essential to me posting on here. I also post to several other sites but wouldn't even consider sharing via SS. Each to their own, possibly speed/cost/usage restrictions prevent posting individually on multiple sites and sharing from here is their only option?

I wouldn't want the top 3 feature to go, as there are often some very interesting photos that I wouldn't possibly get to see.


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Robert J Smith on September 22, 2016, 02:29:40 pm
This topic has been quite for a few days but the comments on photos regarding "sharing" is becoming very boring as well as creating even more hits on the photo.

Not had time to read all the posts in this thread so maybe this has already been suggested. If and when the IT guys do a software upgrade why not make the view counter active only when members are logged on, that way, guests (including from shared sites) will not register and the top posts will be a true reflection of the logged on members.

That way those who want to share will still be happy and those who want to see the real top photos will also be happy.

Regards

Bob


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: john white on September 22, 2016, 02:33:58 pm
I agree with Bob only loged in members hits should be recorded then it is a true reflection


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Bob Scott on September 22, 2016, 03:19:56 pm
I believe the Admins are trying to find a solution to this problem. Perhaps we should be patient for a while to let them get on with it.


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: davidships on September 22, 2016, 06:46:01 pm
Thank you all - I can indeed confirm that we are in discussion with IT about the best (and easiest) way to remove the present unfairness.  I hope to be able to say more in the not too distant future (though the conversation has been rather interrupted by the recent outage abd the appearance of extraneous websites).  Patience may be rewarded.


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Tomas Østberg- Jacobsen on September 25, 2016, 06:57:33 am
My boring view is this: If you want to promote your photo, unless if it aint of a cruiseship sinking or a ship that is in the news or whatever, is to share it on sosial media. Otherwise it drowns in other photos. I have seen fantastic photos on this site with say... 30 views that should have had 3000.

So that is the way to do it. I am doing it my own way, by only posting photos here, and not sharing.
I think in a way the photo shall speak for itself. But understand, if someone would like to share their pictures in a broader way.


Ye olde oldschool Tomas


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: davidships on September 27, 2016, 08:52:19 pm
May I request that members refrain from spreading their personal dislike of linked/shared photos in the Photo Comments of members' galleries.  Actual or thinly-disguised attacks on other members are not acceptable - harrassment is not acceptable on Shipspotting.

Those indulging in this should read the Code of Conduct, especially "I will not use the Forum or photograph comments with the sole intention of irritating others."  Any member who is receiving such photo comments is welcome to advise us at webmaster@shipspotting.com and we will take appropriate action, including removal the inappropriate comments.

The place for discussing this is right here, not on other members' photographs.  If you have already had your say on this thread that is fine - if you haven't, then you are welcome to do so.  However, the question of how the "most viewed/popular" galleries are ranked is with our IT head, and any further announcement will also be made here.



Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Brett Bachmann on September 27, 2016, 08:55:02 pm
Very well put @davidships, fully agree and support you 100%. Brett


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: MO Roy on September 28, 2016, 11:32:33 am
I fully agree with you David.
I never understood this discussion anyway.
Of course I'm (unstoppable)  in tears that my two pics on this site never made it into the top three of the day.

Personally I'm not very 'digitized' but I think we all have to accept how things are going in the modern digital world.

Cheers,
Roy


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Petros Psarras on September 28, 2016, 02:58:55 pm
I think that if you can't stop the sharing  of photos ,it would be a good idea , or even if you stop the "sharing option" to show us the sources of where they took the likes, apart from facebook...

Just from curiosity   ;D


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Hannes van Rijn on September 30, 2016, 06:55:14 pm
May I request that members refrain from spreading their personal dislike of linked/shared photos in the Photo Comments of members' galleries.  Actual or thinly-disguised attacks on other members are not acceptable - harrassment is not acceptable on Shipspotting.

Those indulging in this should read the Code of Conduct, especially "I will not use the Forum or photograph comments with the sole intention of irritating others."  Any member who is receiving such photo comments is welcome to advise us at webmaster@shipspotting.com and we will take appropriate action, including removal the inappropriate comments.

The place for discussing this is right here, not on other members' photographs.  If you have already had your say on this thread that is fine - if you haven't, then you are welcome to do so.  However, the question of how the "most viewed/popular" galleries are ranked is with our IT head, and any further announcement will also be made here.


well said david,I totally agree with this.

Rgds
Hannes.


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Stan Muller on October 23, 2016, 09:24:51 am
I was wondering what the status is on this topic.
Any decissions being made?

rgds Stan


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Bob Scott on November 14, 2016, 02:00:57 pm
Was any action taken about this perceived problem?


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: davidships on November 14, 2016, 06:26:30 pm
Just an update.
IT were indeed asked to tweak the system so that the linking of photos did not affect the ranking of "most viewed" photos.  I do not believe that the software changes needed were at all complicated.

Shortly thereafter, the direct problem seemed to have disappeared but, despite requests, I have not been told whether any delinking has actually been implemented, or whether the handful of members whose linking was causing concern decided not to do so any more.  I think that it might be the latter, so if members see any resurgence, please report back here.


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Stan Muller on December 30, 2016, 01:12:46 pm
some folks will never learn....


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: davidships on December 30, 2016, 03:14:28 pm
Hi Stan
Have you noticed it happening again? I haven't so far.


David


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: davidships on December 31, 2016, 02:07:32 am
Thanks for your off-forum reply, Stan.
There do indeed seem to be some very recently, though it is not the former group of members now.  I am following up again with IT. 


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: James Scott on May 31, 2017, 05:19:25 pm
Unfortunately I see a new action by at least two members sharing again. Ordinary pics on the top blocking really top's pics. Casually you can find those links on Facebook. I think it's no good to see the same tug again and again on the most viewed, especially if those pics brings nothing new. Casually, again, you can see those pics with striking colours, not real.
I hope no offense anybody.
RGDS.
James.


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Stan Muller on June 01, 2017, 10:24:59 am
Still....mr James Scott has a point here.



Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Kyle Stubbs on June 01, 2017, 12:21:25 pm
Hey, at least the site isn't like the rest of the internet (e.g. Facebook, Google, Twitter, etc), where you can just buy promotion of your posts. Here you still at least would have to put in a huge amount of legwork on your own part to be on top if you so desire.

V/r,
Kyle


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Bob Scott on June 01, 2017, 03:51:27 pm
Ditto what Stan says


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Stan Muller on June 04, 2017, 10:22:57 am
Almost every day a new example, sometimes even 2, and not much work at all mr Kyle Stubbs, just clicking and your photo is all over Facebook, Instagram, Twitter etc.


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Ken Smith on June 04, 2017, 11:38:45 am

Stan & Bob,

I tried very hard during my time as Webmaster to overcome this problem of linking photographs without success, you will both know that in the early days of the site we were a Community mostly sharing each others photographs and I did emphasis that it should be members only submitting their own photographs, back in those days of the old site pre. 2010 some members started uploading interesting old B&W photos from Museums with copyright approval given and they proved to be very popular, I can assure you all were thoroughly checked out before being allowed.

But then in Oct 2010 the Website changed hands and was under new management, it was still free to members and still is but with the advance of the Social Media this was seen as a means of raising Revenue with the result that we now have in front of us every time we upload a host of links to which we can link our photographs and that sadly is a fact of life now.

There is much more that I could say but it would not be prudent to do so, we are much too far down the road now I fear for any drastic changes to be made and must accept the situation as it is, it has been said this is not a Competition but sadly it would seem for some it is.

I will end by saying that the Webmasters and Administrators are not to blame, they are the hard working unpaid workforce of this Website and deserve Credit for what they do every day for this Website, the situation has been imposed upon them and they are doing their best to keep things  in good order..

Regards
Ken


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Captain Carlitos on June 04, 2017, 01:54:53 pm
Amen.


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Stan Muller on June 04, 2017, 02:51:41 pm
good point Ken,

We are aware of your battle.
conclusion;
Can we delete this playground, since it mainly serves a goal for a few, very few, unadapted members?
Apperently it does not serve the "community" anymore.

rgds Stan


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: davidships on June 04, 2017, 03:31:28 pm
Thank you, Ken, for reminding us again of some of the background - and I join you in your appreciation of the work of active Admin.  As ever, we need more of them.

I am not so pessimistic about finding a way to change the present position, which is not really to do with inward linking itself, but the way in which rankings are generated.  Cody and I have this as an active subject for discussion with IT.

It should be noted that the issue is often exaggerated, and the reasons for photos receiving higher numbers of views are many and various.  By way of illustration, taking the current three front page photos, at this moment they have 519, 404 and 272 views respectively.  The 1st and 3rd have no inward-linked views, the 2nd has 90 inward links, so even if these were removed 314 views would still place it in 2nd position.  I am not sayng that there is not an unfairness in the current system - there indeed is - but members should not get so excited about it.

There are some open or thinly veiled attacks on other members in some previous comments which will be removed.  Members are recommended to re-read the Code of Conduct.


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Stan Muller on June 04, 2017, 03:58:02 pm
David, the 90 hits from inward links + some standard hits from being on this site made it appear in the top three. Being there did the rest..
Sharing generates hits to reach top 3 postion very quickly. If 1 of the hits also generates a comment, you hit the jackpot. Again.

rgds Stan


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: pieter melissen on June 04, 2017, 05:47:11 pm
the best viewed pictures are those with the most comments. As soon a shot generates one comment the ball starts rolling. That's why it is not allowed to comment on your own picture.


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: Paul Finnigan on June 04, 2017, 10:34:00 pm
David, the 90 hits from inward links + some standard hits from being on this site made it appear in the top three. Being there did the rest..
Sharing generates hits to reach top 3 postion very quickly. If 1 of the hits also generates a comment, you hit the jackpot. Again.

rgds Stan



How do we tell how many hits are from the site and how many via a link ?


Title: Re: "Shared" photos
Post by: davidships on June 05, 2017, 12:17:10 am
This info for each image is available to at least some Admin, showing the number of inward views from specific sources, usually from some part of Facebook.   There are often a small number from Google, probably where a member is using Google Translate to view the site in their own language.


And yes, Stan, you are right in noting that anything that gets a photo to the visibility of the front page, virtually guarantees an even higher overall ranking.