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Shipspotters all over the world => Shipping News and information => Topic started by: Gavin Rayfield on November 24, 2013, 10:00:56 am



Title: Costa Concordia to be scrapped at Grenaa ?
Post by: Gavin Rayfield on November 24, 2013, 10:00:56 am
Hi , I have just read an article in the Tugs Towing & Offshore Newsletter No 67 apparently the vessels owners have turned to fornaes shipbreaking and asked if they could imagine to do the job ! Fornaes have again apparently been in touch with local authorities and received prior authorization to take the ship in Grenaa port. Written as the article reads. The source was credited to vesseltracker.

Cheers,

Gavin


Title: Re: Costa Concordia to be scrapped at Grenaa ?
Post by: sandygates on November 24, 2013, 05:19:30 pm
What a load of nonsense!


Title: Re: Costa Concordia to be scrapped at Grenaa ?
Post by: holedrille on November 24, 2013, 07:26:26 pm
Sandygates
Do you have any logic for your dismissive comment? If so, please enlighten us.
Holedriller


Title: Re: Costa Concordia to be scrapped at Grenaa ?
Post by: sandygates on November 24, 2013, 09:56:42 pm
Towing or carrying that huge wreck all the way to the small-ships breaking yard at Grenaa in Denmark would be so illogical that I do not feel inclined to insult the intelligence of the majority of members by stating the obvious reasons why I think the report is nonsense.


Title: Re: Costa Concordia to be scrapped at Grenaa ?
Post by: Robert Smith on November 24, 2013, 10:10:06 pm
Sandygates, "c'est le ton qui fait la musique" or to put it in plain English, there is absolutely no need to react in such condescending way to a post by another member. Simply a matter of common courtesy....

 >:(

Robert Smith.



Title: Re: Costa Concordia to be scrapped at Grenaa ?
Post by: Daniel Bérubé on November 24, 2013, 11:54:57 pm
Courtesy or music may be allright, but towing such a wreck all the way to northern Europe is really a nonsense. Consider the number of days of sailing between Italy and Danmark. And the changing state of the seas during those days and you get a nightmare.


Title: Re: Costa Concordia to be scrapped at Grenaa ?
Post by: Astra on November 25, 2013, 05:34:04 am
Costa has contacted several yards concerning the dismantling of Costa Concordia. The Fornaes Skibsophug in Grenaa, Denmark is one of them.

The contact between Costa and the Fornaes Skibsophug is described as preliminary but serious.The Port of Grenaa and the Fornaes Skibsophug is very much able to handle a ship of this size and the dismantling of it.

Costa Concordia is not been towed away from the Italian Isola del Giglio, but onboard the semi - submersible heavy transport vessel Dockwise Vanguard.

Regards.


Title: Re: Costa Concordia to be scrapped at Grenaa ?
Post by: Phil English on November 25, 2013, 09:30:41 am
This may not be as daft as it sounds.

The ultimate fate of Costa Concordia will generate huge publicity. As such, the salvors/insurers will not risk a huge (mostly ill-informed) public outcry should they sell the wreck to Indian sub-Continent cash buyers for scrapping. They are going to look for an alternative that is as environmentally and public-friendly as possible. As Astra says, the facilities at Grenaa are more than capable of handling such a job and they certainly meet all the 'green' credentials. Perhaps our man Bendt will keep us in the  picture  :)

Having said that, my money is on Aliaga!

Brgds
Phil


Title: Re: Costa Concordia to be scrapped at Grenaa ?
Post by: Allan RO on November 25, 2013, 01:14:03 pm
but, of course, the long tow to Grenaa would offer many opportunities for it to simply sink........sure it's happened many time before, or am I being too cynical ?

Allan


Title: Re: Costa Concordia to be scrapped at Grenaa ?
Post by: Phil English on November 25, 2013, 01:21:54 pm
Allan,

As Astra says, she will not be towed. She will be transported on the heavy load vessel "Dockwise Vanguard".

Brgds
Phil


Title: Re: Costa Concordia to be scrapped at Grenaa ?
Post by: Allan RO on November 25, 2013, 04:17:20 pm
well that rules out that end game

Allan


Title: Re: Costa Concordia to be scrapped at Grenaa ?
Post by: GwilJ on November 27, 2013, 04:27:03 pm
Getting her on the beach of Alang or Gadani would be a difficult job, getting her off the Dockwise Vanguard for one. Too far away from the beach and would remain submerged again. Anywhere where there is a dock facility would be ideal, not many choices.


Title: Re: Costa Concordia to be scrapped at Grenaa ?
Post by: Mike on November 27, 2013, 09:05:30 pm
Getting her on the beach of Alang or Gadani would be a difficult job, getting her off the Dockwise Vanguard for one. Too far away from the beach and would remain submerged again. Anywhere where there is a dock facility would be ideal, not many choices.

Err?? is it me or am I missing something!

Costa Concordia has to be 'refloated' to get her onto the Semi Submercible, then wherever she goes she then has to be re-floated off again, so it makes no difference if she is dry docked or beached after.

Semi Submercibles cost a fortune to hire daily, My best guess is they will take no chances once she is afloat and will pick the shortest distance and safest place possible.

http://gcaptain.com/dockwise-vanguard-to-lift-costa-concordia-from-giglio/

That's 'if' the Dockwise Vanguard can lift the Costa Concordia, her lifting capacity I see is 117,000 tons and Costa Concordia was/is 114,000 GT.

I guess it's going to be 'watch this space'. :)



Title: Re: Costa Concordia to be scrapped at Grenaa ?
Post by: spotti on November 27, 2013, 09:24:26 pm
GT is a cubic measurement (1 GT equal to 2.8 m3), not a weight measurement.
BR Niels

PS: On Wikipedia's "Costa Concordia Disaster", the displacement/displacement tonnage - or
weight - of the ship is stated at 50,000 tons.


Title: Re: Costa Concordia to be scrapped at Grenaa ?
Post by: Glenn Towler on November 28, 2013, 07:40:18 am
I thought I read somewhere that once she was stably afloat she was to be towed to the nearest port that can handle a ship of this size to be dismantled?  Thing is no one is going to accurately predict her weight as even with the pontoons there will still be quite a bit of water inside her plus all the silt that would have washed into while she was on her side


Title: Re: Costa Concordia to be scrapped at Grenaa ?
Post by: rd77 on November 28, 2013, 11:30:32 am
There is a deal with Boskalis to bring the wreck to wherever she will be scrapped onboard the DOCKWISE VANGUARD:

http://www.boskalis.com/press/news-archive/news-page/boskalis-awarded-contract-for-removal-of-the-concordia-onboard-the-dockwise-vanguard.html

You can be sure that they did their math!

Wrecks and other derelict ships from Italy and Greece usually go to Aliaga because it is close by, so there is less risk of harm enroute. Aliaga is also the scrapyard of choice for the UK MoD, so they are well above board.


Title: Re: Costa Concordia to be scrapped at Grenaa ?
Post by: Astra on November 29, 2013, 12:36:55 pm
With the panic - stricken evacuation of her 4.200 passengers and crew and 32 people losing their lives while on holiday on a Costa cruise ship, being wrecked on an Italian island right in front of the World's TV viewers, Costa cannot allow themselves any further issues concerning the Costa Concordia.

The safe transport of the wreck and the dismantling of it in a yard capable of doing so without causing further damage to the environment and people's health has to be a major aspect of the Costa considerations. They are a cruise company of a good reputation, their success is depending on their reputation and they are likely go very far to keep it that way. This could be the reason for their enquiry to the Fornaes Skibsophug in Grenaa, Denmark.

The Port of Grenaa in Denmark, in recent years, has expanded very much and is today looked upon as one of the most innovative ports in Denmark - with several big sites and projects going on mainly related to the growing Danish offshore wind mill industry. Fornaes Skibsophug is located within the Port of Grenaa and is spezialised  in the environmental friendly ship breaking business. It has invested a substansial amount of money in it. They were formed in 1993 and are operating under very strict Danish labor rules. Until this date, there has been, as to my knowledge, no accidents worth of mentioning in this yard.

I find it therefore very reasonable, that the owner of Costa Concordia has directed an enquiry to the Fornaes Skibsophug in Grenaa, Denmark concerning the safe dismantling of this wreck - especially if they want to avoid any unfavourable publicity concerning the environmental problems and health hazards usually associated with the dismantling of a big ship.

I've only very limited information as to the other yards in question, Piombino at Leghorn, Fincantieri at Perlermo and Aliaga in Turkey. They may have their environmental - and safety standards in place, as well, and follow them strictly. However, my impression is, that the Aliaga yard does have environmental - and working conditions, which to a certain degree  could be similar to those of the yards in Asia, but others may know this better.

Regards                   


Title: Re: Costa Concordia to be scrapped at Grenaa ?
Post by: Timsen on November 29, 2013, 04:03:58 pm
Indeed Denmark has achieved large and impressive rxpertise in environmental friendly shipbreaking and disposal during the recent years. The latest proof for that is the handling of the fire damaged German boxship MSC Flaminia in Aarhus and Odense, from which about 22000 tons waste declared as hazardous by the Romanian authorities are getting disposed of and recycled. So I am quite sure that Grenna will be a candidate in the race, and one could trust in the environmental as well as the working and payment standards.


Title: Re: Costa Concordia to be scrapped at Grenaa ?
Post by: holedrille on November 29, 2013, 08:02:58 pm
Having been so effectively put down by Sandygates, I hesitate to re-enter the debate.
However, trying to scale what I think is the shipbreaking area at Grenaa on Google earth, it looks to me as if the quay they use is only 200 metres long, and the access to it rather tortuous. As Concordia is 291 metres long, how will it fit? Photos show the modus operandii  is to cut the hull down, and then heave the remaining bit up a slipway, cutting it as they go. Doesn't seem feasible to me.
What is the biggest ship they have broken to date?
Holedriller


Title: Re: Costa Concordia to be scrapped at Grenaa ?
Post by: davidships on November 29, 2013, 10:54:02 pm
I would say "ineffectively put down", and hopefully we won't have any more like that.

But why assume that Fornĉs is limited to that part of the harbour?  They say: "We have gone to the authorities and asked for permission to do so.  The port has given the green light to it, and they also have room for the ship in the time it now takes."  They are talking about using the North Harbour
http://www.dr.dk/Nyheder/Udland/2013/11/13/145758.htm
http://shippingwatch.dk/Virksomheder/article6235860.ece
a
If Googlemaps current image is fairly recent, they have a large vacant port area there: http://goo.gl/maps/zhlrl


Title: Re: Costa Concordia to be scrapped at Grenaa ?
Post by: holedrille on November 29, 2013, 11:16:57 pm
That's a whole new ball game. And it doesn't look as if it is used for anything at the moment.
Holedriller


Title: Re: Costa Concordia to be scrapped at Grenaa ?
Post by: bendt nielsen on November 29, 2013, 11:21:38 pm
I can say that Fornaes Shipbreaking has berth to vessels up to about 300 m in the secured portion of the harbour, and that they have the expertise to scrap it.


Title: Re: Costa Concordia to be scrapped at Grenaa ?
Post by: Astra on November 29, 2013, 11:23:04 pm
In case the Fornaes Skibsophug is awarded this contract, which is not sure, the yard and the port can easily handle her.

The wreck would then be dismantled in a port area named Nordhavnen. The quay in that area can accommodate ships measuring up to 360 m. Costa Concordia, as you mentioned, measures 391 m. so a dispensation is required. However, that dispensation has already been granted by the relevant authorities.

The Fornaes Skibsophug is 3rd or 4th on the list of European ship breaking yards. Usually they handle small - and medium size ships. Until now ferries and navy ships have been among their biggest jobs.

It's important to emphasize, that the contact between Costa and Fornaes Skibsophug is a preliminary one - there is still a long way to go.

Regards


Title: Re: Costa Concordia to be scrapped at Grenaa ?
Post by: Robert Smith on November 29, 2013, 11:35:28 pm
Towing or carrying that huge wreck all the way to the small-ships breaking yard at Grenaa in Denmark would be so illogical that I do not feel inclined to insult the intelligence of the majority of members by stating the obvious reasons why I think the report is nonsense.

Fortunately the intelligence of the majority of the members is not insulted at all, as Sandygates surmises. They appear to take a serious approach to this thread instead of dismissing it as nonsense.



Title: Re: Costa Concordia to be scrapped at Grenaa ?
Post by: sandygates on November 29, 2013, 11:44:38 pm
I had no intention in my previous comments to "put down" (neither effectively nor ineffectively)any members for their contributions but I do find a bit ridiculous the speculation in the "Tugs Towing & Offshore Newsletter No 67" article that the wreck could be taken to Denmark for scrapping. Maybe I will be proved horrendously wrong but, from my days working in the shipping industry, I would say that much of the talk of it going to Grenaa is a little bit naive and a bit "wishful thinking" (mainly by Danish members).
If it does go there, I am ready to heat my hat!
We shall see!


Title: Re: Costa Concordia to be scrapped at Grenaa ?
Post by: polsteam on December 01, 2013, 02:00:36 pm
GT is a cubic measurement (1 GT equal to 2.8 m3), not a weight measurement.
BR Niels

PS: On Wikipedia's "Costa Concordia Disaster", the displacement/displacement tonnage - or
weight - of the ship is stated at 50,000 tons.

it has been so many times explained that GT is RELATED to volume of the ship, but is NOT a cubic measurement...

no, 1 GT is NOT equal to 2,8 m3

the OLD RT (register ton), now illegal, _was_ 100 cubic feet...

the currently valid gross tonnage is a pure number (not quantity of cubic metres of feet)!


Title: Re: Costa Concordia to be scrapped at Grenaa ?
Post by: spotti on December 01, 2013, 04:13:40 pm
Polsteam, thanks for a - much needed - update to me on this one. BR Niels


Title: Re: Costa Concordia to be scrapped at Grenaa ?
Post by: Astra on December 01, 2013, 09:40:10 pm
Sandygates ( earlier in this thread ) - for the time being there is very limited information available as to what plans the owners of the Costa Concordia wreck have concerning the dismantling of it. It's a known fact, however, that a number of yards have been contacted and asked about their interest in and capability of scrapping this wreck.

One of these yards is the Fornaes scrap yard in the Port of Grenaa. Their reply was, that they can do it. They have the facilities, the work force and the expertise to do it - in a safe way without causing harm to neither environment nor anyone's health. This is what this scrap yard is known for - environmental safe scrapping and no accidents in the work place.

The owner's enquiry to the Fornaes scrap yard indicates an interest in also considering an environmental friendly scrapping of their wreck with no further harm to people's health - if the safe transport of the wreck on the Seawise Vanguard can be guaranteed - merely my assumption, but I don't think it's unrealistic, wishful thinking.

Information as to how far the Seawise Vanguard can move the Costa Concordia wreck has yet to reach the public - with the acceptance of the insurance company all the way to Denmark.

The Seawise Vanguard has been hired for that time it takes to transport the wreck of Costa Concordia to the site where it can be scrapped. Royal Boskalis are very sure they can handle this operation with their Seawise Vanguard. Costa has yet to take the final decision. At this stage Costa is primarily interested in having the Seawise Vanguard at hand in case they decide, that this kind of transport is the right way to remove the wreck from Isola del Giglio.

Perhaps you are right and one day this wreck turns up somewhere else than in Denmark and will be scrapped there. However, it doesn't mean that the present shipping reports, speculations and opinions are naive and just a lot of nonsense. On the contrary. Environmental friendly dismantling of this wreck in a yard in Denmark capable of doing so without causing any further harm to neither environment nor people's health to me seems very meaningful.

Regards   


Title: Re: Costa Concordia to be scrapped at Grenaa ?
Post by: David Barnes on December 02, 2013, 11:38:16 pm
Getting her on the beach of Alang or Gadani would be a difficult job, getting her off the Dockwise Vanguard for one. Too far away from the beach and would remain submerged again. Anywhere where there is a dock facility would be ideal, not many choices.

Interesting thread this one ... you are quite correct GwilJ. The 'normal' method of ship breaking where the ship is 'run up'the beach and subsequently dragged up as the vessel is demolished will not apply to Costa Concordia due to her physical state, the buoyancy tanks etc. She will be pretty fragile from the looks of her but most obviously the draft will be pretty huge. Therefore, no doubt several scenarios will be looked at. I would envisage she will at least be be made watertight once lifted by Dockwise Vanguard then taken by her to a suitable facility.

There is no reason at all why she should not be taken to Denmark or anywhere else where the facility can handle her. That is the beauty of the Flo Flo vessels, fast safe delivery anywhere in the world. Its a nonsense to speculate that the weather will have any undue influence, these ships transport the most awkward loads imaginable over huge distances with few if any problems.

One thing is certain it would be foolish of anyone to rubbish any reasonable idea as has already been proven by the salvage success so far. The magnificent feat of building a platform and parbuckling her upright was 'pooh poohed' by many people .... but it has been done. Who would have thought such a ship as Dockwise Vanguard would be built and operate successfully twenty years ago?

As a very young Cadet aboard my pre-sea training ship way back in 1955 I asked an officer "Do you think they will ever build 100,000 ton ships sir?". He replied in the negative yet ...5 years later I stood on the deck of "Universe Daphne" in Mina ... she was 108,000 dwt.

David Barnes
Westport
New Zealand


Title: Re: Costa Concordia to be scrapped at Grenaa ?
Post by: David Barnes on December 02, 2013, 11:48:33 pm
............Thing is no one is going to accurately predict her weight as even with the pontoons there will still be quite a bit of water inside her plus all the silt that would have washed into while she was on her side

Sorry Glenn, stability calculations today are very accurate indeed. Back in the mid 1980's I had programmed my HP Calculator to do trim calculations for the 4 Coastal tankers I was 'mate' on converting the documentation supplied aboard by the shipbuilders. 2 ships were the same and the other 2 quite different but the trim results were spot on and I am no computer programmer by any stretch of the imagination. Now, with todays Computers it is no trouble to do the most complicated problems with extreme accuracy ... just think of the calculations involved in the salvage of Costa Concordia to date ... amazing and very, very clever.


Title: Re: Costa Concordia to be scrapped at Grenaa ?
Post by: Tuomas Romu on December 03, 2013, 05:14:59 am
There are probably a great deal of unknown factors in the stability of Costa Concordia, but you can make some safe assumptions and have additional margins to avoid problems.

BTW, the "normal" method of beaching a ship at high tide does not apply to modern shipbreaking yards such as those located in Northern Europe. The EU regulations would not allow the vessel to be broken up in Alang, Gadani Beach or Chittagong...


Title: Re: Costa Concordia to be scrapped at Grenaa ?
Post by: Ben Backstay on December 03, 2013, 08:09:22 am


 Costa Concordia, as you mentioned, measures 391 m. so a dispensation is required. However, that dispensation has already been granted by the relevant authorities.


She is 100m shorter at around 290m, so if the quay is longer than 300m, no problem.


Title: Re: Costa Concordia to be scrapped at Grenaa ?
Post by: Astra on December 03, 2013, 11:09:29 am
Thanks Ben, it should be 291 m. ( not 391 m. ).

The quay in question has approval for ships of a length of up to 360 m. so it shouldn't be a problen.

Regards